Player Guide Errata & Typos

[tonyg]

Ah.

Well to put it briefly, while mixed species characters do appear to have pretty good attributes, they pay for it in other areas.

In CODA each species (even humans!) have around 3-5 special abilities similar to ICON traits or CODA edges and flaws.

A mixed species character selects a "dominant" species and select 4 attributes from the dominant species and two from the other.

As for special abilities, a mixed species character gets all but one of the dominant species abilities, and must selct one ability from the other species.

The PG also states:
Typically, while 'half-breed' characters posess at least some of the abilities of the parents' species, they have them to a lesser degree. For example, a half-Human half-Betazoid usually posesses empathic powers rather that the species' full telepathic abilities. Consult with your Narrator as to which abilities your character posesses and th what degree.


So "half-breed" characters are going to require a little extra attention, but it fits with thier scarcity. If someone isn't willing to go through the extra work to create such a character they probably shouldn't be playing one.

[Phantom]

I view this as being in the same pool as Commendation and Promotion...It needs to be heavily monitored by the GM. I think if I had to deal with it I would probably tack on other disadvantages to cover certain genetic incompatibilities (ie Only Empathic abilities for half-breed telepaths-see Troi, birth defects-see B'Lenna and Paris's child, etc.

Of course there are also the ones you just have to laugh at, and say NO. Like there are alot of Gorn/Klingon fusions running around.

[tonyg]

As usual it's more a case of is it a good character concept or just good numbers?

The general rule in Trek was that such character were rather rare, with about one per series. (Spock, Troi, Sisko, Torres), and with those characters being very complex due to thier mixed heritage.



Anyone can just go for bonuses. The real trick is how well the character idea is developed.

If someone had a good enough concept I'd allow the Gorn/Klingon! (But it would have to be something better than getting drunk at a party and waking up the next moring with a new "friend".)

[Phantom]

That is just my point. In my group, years ago, we had a player that would take the Mixed heritage just so he would get the bonus, and the waking up with a "new friend" would have been more imaginative then he was as to how the character came about. Personnally I never really saw a proper situation in which I would have allowed it, as no system really did it the right way.

[Chris Landmark]

Well, having finally broken down and signed on here, I have a number of questions/typos/whatnot for this thread. Let us begin...

1) If "Fast on your Feet" is being removed from the Rogue: Scoundrel professional development package, it should also be removed from the Mystic: Aesthetic (p.91), Soldier: Guerilla (p.92), Flight Control Officer: Helmsman/Navagator (p.93) and Medical Officer: Emergency Medic (p.98) professional development packages, and the Athletic Aptitude (p.87) personal development package. Just for completeness sake. I believe those are all the remaining references to it.

2) The Armed Combat skill group description states that "more exotic weapons, such as the bat'leth and lirpa, are treated as individual skills; these require a high degree of training to employ." Then right below this, in the list of various Armed Combat skills, bat'leth and lirpa are listed as specialties (of Traditional Klingon and Vulcan Weapons, respectively) instead of separate skills. Which version is correct?

3) What's the deal with the Starship Officer professional ability Capable? Oh, yeah, you're still mulling that one over... I'd assume it works something like the Martial Artist edge (-2 instead of -5 to first extra action) or Quick Shot edge (-3 instead of -5 to first extra action), unless it is something which carries on beyond the first extra action.

4) Merely out of curiosity, is there a particularly good explanation for the above difference between Martial Artist and Quick Shot, or is it one of those "just because" sorts of things?

5) Does changing professions also change favored attributes and reactions? This really only comes up when switching into a Starship Officer elite profession (as none of the other elite professions have preffered attributes and reactions). Or is your Science Officer who switched into the command track "stuck" with Intellect and Stamina, where as someone who just stayed in the Command Officer profession would have Presence and Willpower?

6) Another one on Elite Professions: under "Restrictions on Multiple Professions" it states that you can only make picks from two professions, no matter how many you have. The example then goes on to describe a character with Envoy, Explorer, and Science Officer professions being able to pick from Envoy and either Explorer or Science Officer. The question is, doesn't this character actually have four professions to pick from: Envoy(elite), Explorer(elite), Starship Officer(basic), and Science Officer(elite)? Or are the Starship Officer elite professions different in that they combine with the basic profession and count as only one profession for this purpose? If they do, this would imply that if a Starship Officer switches from one Starship Officer elite profession to another they would have access to professional skill and ability advancements from both, and wouldn't have to start chosing between professions until they transfered to a third department (which is cool in allowing such characters to cross-train, but I'd like to know if this is what was intended).

OK, that should be more than enough, at least until I run across something else.

-Chris Landmark

[AllenS]

Can someone tell me how to convert my Organian Security Officer?



Just kidding


Allen

[tonyg]

Originally posted by AllenS
Can someone tell me how to convert my Organian Security Officer?



Just kidding


Allen

Sure, use a particle accelerator!

And stop molesting that baby goat!

[tonyg]

Phantom,

Yes & no. While it certainly depends heavily on the sotry/roleplaying aspect of the character, that isn't a game design flaw, but a player/powergamer flaw.

Like you said, you had a player who would always take that mixed species just for pluses. That's not a problem with the game, but the gameer.

Changing the game rules would just make that player go looking for something else to exploit. PArt og a GM's job is to spot when players are doing that and being ready to deal with it. BTW, that problem crosses all RPG platforms.

[tonyg]

Hi Chris, weclome aboard. Let's see if we can answer some of your questions. Don and Ross say I'm CODA certified!

Originally posted by Chris Landmark
[B]Well, having finally broken down and signed on here, I have a number of questions/typos/whatnot for this thread. Let us begin...

1) If "Fast on your Feet" is being removed from the Rogue: Scoundrel professional development package, it should also be removed from the Mystic: Aesthetic (p.91), Soldier: Guerilla (p.92), Flight Control Officer: Helmsman/Navagator (p.93) and Medical Officer: Emergency Medic (p.98) professional development packages, and the Athletic Aptitude (p.87) personal development package. Just for completeness sake. I believe those are all the remaining references to it.

Not exaclty. "Fleet of Foot" was listed as a Rogue Progfessional ability, with it's own rules, where as, I believe, "Fast on Your Feet" was renaned Speed. Probably need Don or Ross to get an official ruling on this.

2) The Armed Combat skill group description states that "more exotic weapons, such as the bat'leth and lirpa, are treated as individual skills; these require a high degree of training to employ." Then right below this, in the list of various Armed Combat skills, bat'leth and lirpa are listed as specialties (of Traditional Klingon and Vulcan Weapons, respectively) instead of separate skills. Which version is correct?

Batl'eth and lirpa are specialties. Looks like the other wording was a holdover from advanced ICON rules where all Armed Combat skills were at first lumped into a mega-skill, and later broken up in many different skills.

Specialties are the way to go here, although some Edges and abilities might only affect a particlar weapon (see Favored weapon or Weapon Master for examples).

3) What's the deal with the Starship Officer professional ability Capable? Oh, yeah, you're still mulling that one over... I'd assume it works something like the Martial Artist edge (-2 instead of -5 to first extra action) or Quick Shot edge (-3 instead of -5 to first extra action), unless it is something which carries on beyond the first extra action.

Still waiting on offical word on this one. There is a thread on the board that is addressing this. See

BTW, I suspect the final ruling will probably be close to your guess.

4) Merely out of curiosity, is there a particularly good explanation for the above difference between Martial Artist and Quick Shot, or is it one of those "just because" sorts of things?

Lets see. For game reason is could be because aiming in the game works better with missile weapons and the multi-action penalty might help to off-set this.

Or, it could be because hand-to-hand combat makes use of combination attacks, where as missile combat generally does not.

Or, it could be a goof?

5) Does changing professions also change favored attributes and reactions? This really only comes up when switching into a Starship Officer elite profession (as none of the other elite professions have preffered attributes and reactions). Or is your Science Officer who switched into the command track "stuck" with Intellect and Stamina, where as someone who just stayed in the Command Officer profession would have Presence and Willpower?

Good One!
I believe that everyone gets two favored reactions. Most people get to pick one and have one assigned by by thier basic profession. Starfleet Characters are a bit of an exception because it is the only advanced profession that players can start in thanlks to "Starship Duty". As a result, it looks like the second favored reaction is assigned for such characters.
It also appears that favored reaction don't change once selected.

6) Another one on Elite Professions: under "Restrictions on Multiple Professions" it states that you can only make picks from two professions, no matter how many you have. The example then goes on to describe a character with Envoy, Explorer, and Science Officer professions being able to pick from Envoy and either Explorer or Science Officer. The question is, doesn't this character actually have four professions to pick from: Envoy(elite), Explorer(elite), Starship Officer(basic), and Science Officer(elite)? Or are the Starship Officer elite professions different in that they combine with the basic profession and count as only one profession for this purpose? If they do, this would imply that if a Starship Officer switches from one Starship Officer elite profession to another they would have access to professional skill and ability advancements from both, and wouldn't have to start chosing between professions until they transfered to a third department (which is cool in allowing such characters to cross-train, but I'd like to know if this is what was intended).

Great rules snafu! When I finaly finish my RPG I think I want you on the proofreading team! Now for an answer-


Uh, maybe. Technically, Sechok, the sample character used for this example on page 155, "began his career as a starship science officer". Now while it makes sense that he picked up the Starship Officer profession, it is theoretically possible that he might not of done so, but met the prerequisites for science officer during personal development and bypassed Starship Officer. Possible, but unlikely.

I'd assume that Sechok did take Starship Officer (or another similar profession) to start and that he stoped advancing in Starship Officer when he picked up Explorer. I think it was a case of the designers opps by picking a starship officer character for thier example, as they are a little different from the rest.

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by tonyg
Not exaclty. "Fleet of Foot" was listed as a Rogue Progfessional ability, with it's own rules, where as, I believe, "Fast on Your Feet" was renaned Speed. Probably need Don or Ross to get an official ruling on this.

I think you're wrong on this one, or at least misunderstanding me. It's the "Fast on your Feet" edge under the Rogue:Scoundrel professional development package that I am talking about on this one, not the "Fleet of Foot" Rogue professional ability. It's ("Fast on your Feet" that is...) referenced in the Offical Errata thread as being dropped from that reference on p.91, and I was merely listing all the other places where it appears, because if it's being removed from one place (and doesn't exist as an edge) all the other places should be taken care of as well.

And oddly enough, "Fast on your Feet" appears alongside "Speed" in the Athletic Aptitude personal development package on p. 87, so they must have existed as separate entities, at least briefly.

Look at me, now I'm doing game design archeology by looking at the accidental oversights...

Originally posted by tonyg
Batl'eth and lirpa are specialties. Looks like the other wording was a holdover from advanced ICON rules where all Armed Combat skills were at first lumped into a mega-skill, and later broken up in many different skills.

That's what I figured, as CODA seems to be doing a pretty good job of eliminating and consolidating excess skills. The wording should probably still be errataed out to protect the easily confused.

Had the Armed Combat skills followed the formatting of the Ranged Combat skills (and basically all the other Skill groups for that matter), with the specialties of each explicity listed for each example, it would have helped a bit. I guess it's just a little bit of sloppy formatting of the sort that can creap into any long list, especially if you decide to reformat it once or twice...

Originally posted by tonyg
Good One!
I believe that everyone gets two favored reactions. Most people get to pick one and have one assigned by by thier basic profession. Starfleet Characters are a bit of an exception because it is the only advanced profession that players can start in thanlks to "Starship Duty". As a result, it looks like the second favored reaction is assigned for such characters.

Not quite. Two favored Attributes, one favored Reaction. All basic professions with the sole exception of Starship Officer assign the favored Reaction and one of the favored Attributes (making suggestions for the second). The Starship Officer basic profession refers you to the individual Starship Officer elite professions for this.

Conversely none of the elite professions, with the sole exception of the Starship Officer elite professions, make any assignments of favored Attribute or Reaction. Yet another instance of Starship Officer things being unique exceptions.

As with this question and the next one, a little clarification from On High might be nice...

-Chris Landmark

[Phantom]

Originally posted by tonyg
Phantom,

Yes & no. While it certainly depends heavily on the sotry/roleplaying aspect of the character, that isn't a game design flaw, but a player/powergamer flaw.

Like you said, you had a player who would always take that mixed species just for pluses. That's not a problem with the game, but the gameer.

Changing the game rules would just make that player go looking for something else to exploit. PArt og a GM's job is to spot when players are doing that and being ready to deal with it. BTW, that problem crosses all RPG platforms.

And I realize that, I was just using the point to show why I think the way I do about Mixed Heritage.

Personally I think the +6 cost for the advantage is too low, it should be +10 at least because the great strengths and few weaknesses it gives a character. As well there should be set disavantages to offset it as well, representing genetic incompatiblities.

[tonyg]

Ah, but does it give great strengths and few weaknesses?

In ICON I'd say no, since the races were balanced. Under few circumstances did a character actually come out ahead in points on the mixed species deal.

In CODA? Maybe, but mixed species doesn't cost anything.

However, in both games many of the weaknesses aren't in terms of game mechanics but role-playing. Pretty much the problem of being an outside to both cultures. (Depsite the "enlightened society" portrayed by TREK, take a good look at the lives that the mixed species characters lived. They all had big social problems).


How much of a problem "mixed species" will be depends mostly on the narrator-not the game. You don't need to rewrite the rules or increase the cost of mixed species becuase of this. If it seems like it's cheap you're probably missing something.


This is similar to the problems that some GMs's used to mention about how thier players wrote up combat monsters, putting all thier points into stats, combat skills and edges, and that it "unbalanced" ICON.

In fact, such characters are easily dealt with, by a GM writing an advenutre that doesn't cater to thier strength but to thier weakenesses. Combat monsters have big problems if all the missions are not combat oriented. Imagine this exchange:

"Don't worry Admiral, we can beat the Zelaks in Combat"
"Beat them in combat! You IDTIOT! We wanted thier help in getting the cure for the Tovrain Virus!"
"Well Sir, they don't want to cooperate. They were unfriendly during dinner"
"Perhaps they would have been more personable if YOU knew the difference between a salad fork and a Zelak religious icon!"

[Phantom]

Balanced? You could have a character with the strength and constitution of a Klingon and the intellect of a Vulcan. That seems like some pretty big bonuses to me, for few points and no real disadvantages.

[tonyg]

Originally posted by Phantom
Balanced? You could have a character with the strength and constitution of a Klingon and the intellect of a Vulcan. That seems like some pretty big bonuses to me, for few points and no real disadvantages.

The bonuses are rather megre, slightly higher stats, and a few species abilties, not all of which will be to the character's benefit (Ferocity and Warrior's Honor won't help much on Vulcan, and what about pon farr?).

The disadvantages are more severe:


Socially, Vulcans consider the character to be a savage and
Klingons consider the character to be a plant eating pactifist.

Anything the character attempts to prove themself to one culture will make them even less popluar with the other.


Such a character would have a lot of role-playing challenges. And would "pay"for the game benefits.

[Phantom]

Ferocity and Warrior's Honour? Are they from CODA, I don't remember them in ICON.

Perhaps the new system clears this up, I will have to wait until next Thursday when my copy gets in.