Powering the Warp Drive

[AdmiralACF]

Is it possible for a ship to go to warp on power generated by the impulse engines? In terms of game rules, the impulse engines generate enough power to allow a ship to go to warp, but is this canon? Is it possible to go to warp with the warp core offline? Alternatively, is there some way to run the warp core without antimatter?

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Tony Fanchi
Scotty "Laddy, don't you think you should rephrase that?"
Korax "You're right. I didn't mean to say the Enterprise should be hauling garbage, I meant to say it should be hauled away as garbage!"
[The Trouble With Tribbles/Trials and Tribbilations]

[Greg Smith]

No.

The main plasma conduits run directly from the warp core to the warp nacelles. Only the matter/anti-matter annihilation can generate sufficient power for warp speed.

Now, in game terms the energy cost for warp drive is much too small IMHO. I think using warp speed should consume a big chunk of the available power.

But, the power distribution and relative proportions of power to shields/weapons/impulse etc works pretty well. Unless you're going to run loads of combat at warp, it doesn't need fixing. IMHO of course.


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Greg

"Calm may work for Locutus of Borg here, but I'm freaked and intend to stay that way."

[This message has been edited by Greg Smith (edited 12-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Greg Smith (edited 12-30-2000).]

[Keny Suda]

If the power needed to operate the warp drive would be increased, the warp core had to produce more energy too. This would give you a hell of energy to power shields, weapons and all you can think of at 150%.

The standard Starfleet warpcore uses a matter/antimatter reaction and nothing else. Other species (eg the Romulans) use different sources of power.

[ArsenicMan]

Actually... if one had a fusion reactor big enough, in theory it could power the warp drive. After all, both generate plamsa, the fuel used to create a warp field in the coils. But this'd have to be a huge reactor - I'd guess about the size of Sol.

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It's is our last, best hope for peace? We are so screwed.

[billy135]

the warp nacelles are powered by matter/antimatter anilation that takes place in the warp reaction chamber. from there it becomes high energy plasma and is transfered to the nacelles via EPS conduits. HOWEVER there are EPS power taps from those line which power the ships weapons, shields, and other critical systems during impulse flight.
During Warp Flight thoes systems are powered from the Impulse system from EPS power taps linked in to the Accelerator/generator in an impulse engine which is powered by several fission reactors.
If you run life support from the auxillery fission reactors, and reroute the plasma flow from the impulse engine throuch the EPS system accessing the EPS power taps on the warp system and send the plasma to the nacelles. I beleave you could get FTL speed, however I could not see you getting a high warp speed. because it takes allot of energy to achive warp one, but once you get to warp one, the power demand drops considerabily. The nacelles are power hogs on getting to speed but fuel efficient once they get to speed. IMHO the warp core is just THE MOST efficient powersource, but not the only one possiable. If that was the only way, then the ship should have a few spare warp cores laying around as replacement parts.

[billy135]

I forgot to add you would need a great engineer, 20 hours of labor, and a sucessful critical sucess roll. In which the engineer gets it done in five hours

[Legate Legion]

Originally posted by ArsenicMan:
Actually... if one had a fusion reactor big enough, in theory it could power the warp drive. After all, both generate plamsa, the fuel used to create a warp field in the coils. But this'd have to be a huge reactor - I'd guess about the size of Sol.

Didn't the Phoenix, the first Human ship with Warp Drive use a fusion power plant to produce the plasma it needed?

~LL


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"Resistance is futile...say baby that is a nice tight skirt you have on." --President Clinton of Borg.

[Dan Gurden]

I was about to mention the Phoenix there Legate. Darnit.

But he's right, at the time of writing the Phoenix would have had to have been powered by fusion or fission reactors, and using pretty much all of that power for the warp transition... It was definatly leaking radioactive material when damaged.



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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts froma random mind!"

[Owen E Oulton]

I dunno 'bout that - We've made small amounts of antimatter in the past decade, so it's not inconceivable that in another 60+ years they may be able to make enough for experimental Warp flight. There's nothing in the movie which indicates one way or the other, except for a reference by Riker to "initialising the Warp Core."

As for the radiation, that's also inconclusive. If they'd done any tests with a M/AM reactor on the Phoenix, the core would most certainly be radioactive. One of the side-products of a M/AM reaction is massive amounts of Gamma radiation. (Hey, if they'd had Bill Bixby play Zefram Cochrane...)

[Greg Davis]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton:
Hey, if they'd had Bill Bixby play Zefram Cochrane...

That would have been great! Just imagine Cochrane cornered by a bunch of Borg. Then comes the cool, dramatic music and Cochrance says,

"You don't want to make me angry...You won't like me when I get angry!"

Then he "Hulks out" (tm) and proceeds to destroy the Borg! It would be awesome!



Sorry, I know it's off topic, but since Owen mentioned it, I had to say something!


Greg

[Steve Long]

The article on the ship in ST:TM #11 clearly states that the Phoenix had a warp core (a matter/antimatter engine) -- a very crude one, by 24th century standards, but a M/AM drive nonetheless.

The tremendous amounts of power needed for superluminal travel require the massive power output of a M/AM core. I don't think it would be possible to build a fusion reactor big enough to generate that much power. The TNGTM certainly seems to imply this when it talks about how little of the warp engine's power goes to power the rest of the ship.

Simulating all this in game terms is a little tricky. If you wanted, you could jack up a ship's Power to about, oh, 10 times what it is now, then increase the cost of Warp Travel to the point where it leaves only about 3-10% of the Power available for all other systems. But then just wait until the warp drive's not in operation and the players use all that extra Power to boost all the systems into the stratosphere, fire every single weapon on the ship every round, and so on.

To get around this, I've always taken the somewhat unrealistic tack of just assigning a low Power cost to warp drive, and keeping the Power generated by the warp core at a low level. An alternate approach, suggested during the Spacedock playtesting by, IIRC, Ryan McReynolds would be to divide Power into two types: Warp Propulsion Power and Normal Power. WPP can only be used to run the warp propulsion system, and constitutes most of what the M/AM core puts out. NP runs the rest of the ship. I chose not to go this route because it seemed needlessly complex for an already complex rules set, but you could certainly adapt it for your own games if you're willing to deal with it.

Steve Long

[SIR SIG]

In a Voyager episode with the Malon, they explain that the Gamma radiation waste is recycled into raw energy and that is what is used to power the ship!

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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator

[Legate Legion]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton:
I dunno 'bout that - We've made small amounts of antimatter in the past decade, so it's not inconceivable that in another 60+ years they may be able to make enough for experimental Warp flight. There's nothing in the movie which indicates one way or the other, except for a reference by Riker to "initialising the Warp Core."

As for the radiation, that's also inconclusive. If they'd done any tests with a M/AM reactor on the Phoenix, the core would most certainly be radioactive. One of the side-products of a M/AM reaction is massive amounts of Gamma radiation. (Hey, if they'd had Bill Bixby play Zefram Cochrane...)

Did ST:FC happen after WWIII? If so, the all of the anti-matter would go bye-bye once the EMP hit the power plants, Owen. So logicaly Cochrane had 10 years to build the Phoenix, not enough time to get enough anti-matter, so he had to use Fusion Power.

~LL

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"Resistance is futile...say baby that is a nice tight skirt you have on." --President Clinton of Borg.

[Steve Long]

So logicaly Cochrane had 10 years to build the Phoenix, not enough time to get enough anti-matter, so he had to use Fusion Power.

To repeat: information on the Phoenixfrom reliable sources clearly indicates that the ship has a warp core -- a matter/antimatter engine.

I do not find it at all difficult to believe that Cochrane could obtain or manufacture enough antimatter for short warp flights in 2063 (or even for his earlier tests in 2061). Ten years (assuming the accuracy of that figure) is more than sufficient time to manufacture what he needed.

Moreover, since there is absolutely no way, technologically in the ST setting, that you could make a warp flight without a M/AM engine, he must have had one.

Steve Long

[Capt.Hunter]

I'm with Steve on this one. Cochrane's flight wasn't very long, so possibly only a few kilos of antimatter were required (if that). What always worried me more was that deflector technology wouldn't have been around back then!

If you really want to say that fusion power could be used for warp drive, I'd limit it to a Warp 1 microwarp burst (detailed in the Spacedock rules). If you field-saturated the nacelles beforehand you could coast for a minute or so.

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"Captain? Is something wrong?"

"I just had the most terrible news. I have to attend the Annual Admirals' Dinner.
I've faced Borg, Romulans and battle-crazed Jem'Hadar, but nothing compares to this."

Captain Matt Hunter, USS Tempest