Reguarding the TOS SRM

[chipbsentai]

In the TNG episode The Ensigns of Command, the young tech lady asked Data if his computer brain was a Duotronic or Multitronic computer.

In the TNG tech manual I believe it was stated that the Galaxy Class used a Quadratronic FTL computer system.

In the DS9 tech manual I believe it was stated that the Defiant used a Quintronic computer system.

In Enterprise, they mention frequently that the NX class used a Monotronic computer system.

In my opinion the reason the M-5 didn't work is because of a computer's inability to have feelings and a short circuit(pun intended) could have done it a world of good.

The M-6 computer system which was Multitronic was apparently a better system and I believe I got that data from Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

I don't have the TNG tech manual in front of me right now, so I can't comment on the quadratronic reference. I do have the DS9 one and it does not mention a quintronic computer system under the Defiant's computer systems section (page 126). Perhaps you could point out the page and reference to me that you are referring to?

I have watched every episode of Enterprise to date, and while I'm willing to accept I might have missed such a reference to a monotronic computer, I certainly do not recall one. And as someone who has perked up his ears to every little bit of TOS continuity that has cropped up on Enterprise so far, I'd be surprised not to have noticed that. Even if I am mistaken, which is not unknown, I very much doubt it has been mentioned frequently.

As far as the movie era ships having multitronic systems, Mr Scott's guide also claims the Enterprise has transwarp drive, which it most certainly does not. Mr Scott's guide is non-canon. But again, if you do not want to run a canon game this isn't a problem.

Yes, I am familiar with the reference to multitronic computers in Ensigns of Command. You do realise that when her ancestors left the Federation, duotronic computer systems were still in use, and multitronics where the only known AI system created at that point?

Which reminds me. You may want to go watch the TNG episode Relics. Geordi tells Scotty that isolinear systems replaced duotronics about 40 years ago. Not multitronics, duotronics. Ergo multitronics were not in use, and duotronics were still in use as late as the 2290s when Scotty disappeared. Ergo TNG does not use quadro, quintro or anything else. They use isolinear computer systems. Isolinear is the 'modern' computer systems type. Which has since been partially superceded by bioneural systems.

So that is the canon. But if you don't want to use it, don't use it *shrug* It's your campaign, establish your own continuity.

[chipbsentai]

I have a big problem with canon stuff. They leave too many blanks for future writers and when the writers write it doesnt get accepted as canon.

That is wrong folks-this article was to ask if the various systems will be able to be included in the TOS recognition manual and if so how many SU's and what technical data can we expect-I am just bringing to the attention of STEVE LONG some ideas for the manual, not trying to start a debate about continuity, canon, or fandom.

[Doktor Evil]

See, people tend to forget that there ARE other sci-fi franchises out there. Too many people tend to try twisting Star Trek into whatever they want it to be. For instance, the overly militant folks love the idea of fighters, carriers and Starfleet marines. Well, militaria is a big part of Star Trek, but it just one aspect of it. Those who want to turn it into a warfare background are well-advised to look for settings like Battletech or Babylon5. And let's not even get into what the Kirk-Spock homoerotic ST fans want to go with ST.

I think Steve Long works the following way : he has a list from PARAMOUNT that puts a priority on canon sources. He then bases his material on that. For anything that is not covered by canon facts or material, he then extrapolates as logically as possible to fill in the blanks, but always within the bounds of the ST spirit. I don't think that sentient computers as were mentionned ealier in the thread fit within the TNG ideology. Roddenberry would have never allowed that one.

If you find ST canon too restrictive, you are free to change whatever you want. In fact, sometimes it may be a fresh approach and can be fun. But do not start confusing what you think is a better idea or read somewhere in defenitely non-canon (but often very entertaining nonetheless) sources like FASA, novels, some fanboy form Nebraska's website, etc.

The best thing is to use your imagination. I just finished designing a set of ST adaption rules for a wargame; now I'm designing my very own universe for that wargame. I decide all the elements, I pick the setting, the technology, the logic of it all, etc.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Originally posted by chipbsentai
I have a big problem with canon stuff. They leave too many blanks for future writers and when the writers write it doesnt get accepted as canon.

That is wrong folks-this article was to ask if the various systems will be able to be included in the TOS recognition manual and if so how many SU's and what technical data can we expect-I am just bringing to the attention of STEVE LONG some ideas for the manual, not trying to start a debate about continuity, canon, or fandom.

As I've been saying all along, if you don't like it create your own canon.

That said, Steve's work is based on canon AFAIK, so I very much doubt he will give your 'reinterpretations' any space in the SRM. Duotronics exist as a ship computer system in TOS and the movies. Multitronics MIGHT be available as a special system under the SRM rules (you'd have to ask Steve). Monotronics do not exist, and never have (and contrary to your earlier comment, I do not believe they have been mentioned on Enterprise). Nor do quadra or quintronics. If you want to say they do, and use them in your campaign, go for it. But they do not exist in Star Trek as you see it on TV. And what you see on TV is canon.

And what do you mean by "when the writers write it doesnt get accepted as canon"? While the writers on the show do sometimes rethink what they create and change things, they are well within their rights to ignore fan speculation. There is no requirement on them to take fan ideas and use them in the show. Why should they tie themselves down like that? It would make no sense. As far as leaving blanks, well that's a necessity of writing for a TV show, IMHO. And if fans want to fill in the blanks for themselves, then fine and dandy, but to expect the actual writers on the show to accept what amounts to fanfiction as 'canon' is unrealistic. But by the same token, canon does not limit whatever you want to do in your campaign. Several of the GMs here use alternate versions of the Trek universe to suit their style. Canon doesn't stop you doing that. Rewrite canon for YOUR campaign, no one can stop you doing that, and nor should they.

[Steve Long]

To be clear: I do not work from a "list" provided by Paramount. The SRMs are all my own work, and AFAIK Paramount isn't even aware of them.

I work from the canon sources and sources I regard as sufficiently authoritative that I consider 'em "quasi-canonical" (like the Tech Manuals). Where necessary, I try to extrapolate logically from existing canonical sources, keeping the "Star Trek spirit" (as Doktor Evil puts it) in mind.

AFAICT, without going back to read every single post in this thread, and review a manuscript I wrote many months ago, none of the unusual "ideas" suggested by chipbsentai are in the TOS SRM.

[PGoodman13]

There's a TOS Ship Recognition Manual? I can't find it anywhere, and I'd love to take a look at it...especially if it features film-era ships.

[Imagus]

Originally posted by PGoodman13
There's a TOS Ship Recognition Manual? I can't find it anywhere, and I'd love to take a look at it...especially if it features film-era ships.

It's not available yet - I believe it's currently awaiting either layout, or Don's opportunity to post it on the main site.

Believe me, there are a number of us waiting with bated breath!

[Steve Long]

Have no fear. Andreas is making good progress on the layout. Once he's done, then I'll just have to review it (and that may take some time, since it's a pretty big book!). It'll be available reasonably soon.

[Capt.Hunter]

Also, Steve didn't mention it, but multitronics (in the form of the M-5 computer) will not be in the TOS SRM. However, since it is canon that Starfleet later refined some of Daystrom's ideas into workable tech (the EMH on Voyager has some multitronic components), there is the option that early breakthroughs might let TOS-era ships have a Class Beta computer upgrade (which otherwise they can't buy).

Data's brain is positronic, after Isaac Asimov's stories, which may be where some confusion is arising.

And the TNG Tech Manual doesn't mention Quadritronic computers - they are based on isolinear optical chip technology. The problem here may be the idea of kiloquads, in which the computer's storage capacity is given (the TNG version of megabytes) - this was made up by the TNG tech advisers in order that they weren't gonna get kicked in the ass by saying the Enterprise had 4 billion terabytes of capacity, and then 2 years down the line someone in real life goes and builds one with 5 billion. It was never intended to refer to quadritronics.

TNG-era computers have been shown to have the lie-detector function on screen - the Voyager episode where Paris has been convicted of murder - the Doc performs an "autonomic response analysis" to verify his statement.

Nice ideas, but if the RPG is going to maintain any coherence, Steve and the other writers have to stick to what's been established on screen and in Paramount-approved sources. We can fiddle around to our hearts content, but an SRM that gives rules for every fan-inspired idea out there is going to require kiloquads of storage space...

[Cybrludite]

Between the horrid grammar, nebulous arguments and odd usage of capital letters, it looks to me like Chipbsentai is trolling us. Shall we pass out the pitchforks & torches to chase him back under his bridge?

[Capt.Hunter]

Now, now - trolls are people too. They just need special handling...

Revs chainsaw...

[spyone]

I don't see any need to chase him off. Troll or no, he's not very annoying.

Wait. That didn't come out right.

I'm not sure he's a troll, but if he is he isn't an annoying one, so we could leave him alone. And if he isn't a troll, we should leave him alone.

If, however, he were very annoying, I'm not sure whether he was a troll would matter in the decision to drive him away (although I suppose it should).

So, given the fact that he hasn't been very annoying, I see no need to chase him off, and he might prove to be not a troll. And if he is a troll, he'll probably get bored and leave on his own.

[Capt.Hunter]

Ooooh! Nice logic!

[Imagus]

Originally posted by Capt.Hunter
And the TNG Tech Manual doesn't mention Quadritronic computers - they are based on isolinear optical chip technology.

Erm, yes it does: page 50, first paragraph under "Subrprocessors."

"A network of 380 quadritronic optical subprocessors is distributed throughout both ship's sections, augmenting the main cores."

If I get the context right (and the TNG TM regularly loses me ), quadritronic systems are used to small client type computers dotted around the ship. Isolinear tech is used for the big stuff...

This is however a single mention, and could mean anything. Incidentally, the use of the word "quadritronic" may not mean there's a "triotronic" or "quintatronic" technology. These are computers so we could be going mono-, duo-, quadri-, octo- and so on, doubling each time (hexadecimotronics anyone?).

TBH, I think this is beyond the scope of the SRM anyway. All the Spacedock system needs to know is that it's a computer of roughly this size, and this level of technology (per the upgrades). Exactly what that technology is, is window-dressing.

Oh, and for the record, I don't think chip is a troll, although he may be used to boards full of them... Which might explain an overly aggressive response as a standard defence tactic. To hang out somewhere like flare or startrek.com you've got to be tough!

In the spirit of the Federation, we should welcome him with open arms and a ship's counsellor... Pointing out condescendingly that we have evolved beyond such responses, but we don't think any the less of him for followin them.

"Captain, I'm sensing a certain amount of irritation about being talked about in the third person..."

"Oh, shut up, Counsellor! Like I needed you tell me that..."

thump

"Raaargghh!"

chomping noises

"Ah... I see... well, TrekRPG seems to have run into some unforeseen difficulties. Erm, listen to this calming music, and we'll return you to the advertised program as soon as we've... umm... mopped up the floor..."



All IMHO of course...