Reguarding the TOS SRM

[chipbsentai]

The U.S.S. Enterprise-Original went through some REAL cosmetic and internal changes from the time of April-Pike and Pike-Kirk and from the first year of Kirk's 5-year mission and the 3rd year of his mission did it not?

Where in TNG do you find a ship that can travel easily 30,000 ly in less than a few weeks?

Where in TNG do you find a ship with psycho-tricorders able to read the memories of a person 24 hours after the events?

Where in TNG do you find a computer that can tell if a person is lying or a computer that can beam a person back into themselves or even one that travels in time to investigate the past on a fairly regular basis?

Where in TNG do you find a ship that can travel a few thousand light years in less than a day?

The Next Generation doesn't come close to this-exception counselor Troi. Now are you going to include this in the manual?


One thing I noted was the differences in engines-the old ones had no Balls on them and I think it was a modification of those engines to include the balls as a safety regulator so Kirk and crew WOULDN'T get into so much trouble so far from home.

[Doktor Evil]

your whole point being?

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[chipbsentai]

Troi is the closest thing to the computer on the original series that can tell if a person is lying-Betazoids have replaced the computer...HEHEHE.

Now as for my concerns-the Warp Engines of the Original Enterprise seem to be MUCH faster than either Picard's or Janeway's.

Even Archer can make it to Kronos in 10 days-that has to be fast.

[Balok]

It's that "going over Warp 5" thing -- back in the days of Archer, subspace was nice and smooth, like a virgin ski slope. Now it's full of potholes, cracks and moguls. You just can't get somewhere as fast, anymore.

[spyone]

Originally posted by chipbsentai


Where in TNG do you find a ship that can travel easily 30,000 ly in less than a few weeks?

Where in TOS did you find that? If you mean that journey to "the Edge of the Galaxy", I'll remind you that a 3d shape has more than one edge, and the edge that is closest to Earth is less than 500ly away.

[chipbsentai]

Well all I am saying is that even 500ly away is A BIG distance for the old Enterprise. It would take Picard and crew nearly 6 months to get that far. And they were near the Aldeberan colony not too many weeks-months before, to pick up Liz(Elizabeth Dehner)

Perhaps Lithium, while not producing as much power outage, allowed greater freedom with a duotronic computer, in ways of speed.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Travel times in TOS were all over the place. Ignore the quotes of how far they travelled and how long it took them. This has long been contradicted by established 'canon'. TOS era ships are slower than their modern counterparts, 'nuff said. Trying to reconcile the differences will just drive you nuts.

TOS warp scale is canonically slower than the TNG one. The problem again begins when the writers ignore their own 'facts' and have the ship travelling much greater distances in much shorter time periods than they should be able to. This happens in TNG and DS9 at least as much as it does in TOS.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Originally posted by chipbsentai

Perhaps Lithium, while not producing as much power outage, allowed greater freedom with a duotronic computer, in ways of speed.

No, the writers had no guidelines for how long it would take the ship to travel certain distances, so the numbers were just made up. Even today, the writers on the modern shows regulalrly ignore their own guidelines for this. There is absolutely no logic in trying to say the TOS era ships were so much faster. It makes no sense, and I have no problem with ignoring a few references travel times in TOS.

Many of the references to how far the 1701 travelled and how long it took them can generally be taken with a very large pinch of salt. However, there are websites dedicated to this sort of thing who could explain it far better than I. Try ex Astris Scientia, or Sir Sig's mapmaking (which gives a reasonable layout to the Trek galaxy).

[chipbsentai]

I understand what you are trying to say. But classified Star Fleet knowledge and shipbuilding techniques PRIOR to the Excelsior Experiment could have dealt with this incongruency.

See all I am saying is that when the ship didn't have the balls on the end of the nacelles, it travelled faster and farther than it would when it had them.

Case in point-the refitted Enterprise made it to Genesis in how much time? Their engines were VERY fast. The Excelsior made it to Khitomer in How Many Hours from Federation Space?

And they all didn't have the balls on the ends of them.

Another thing is that the Sovereign class does have them within the nacelle casing. Imagine if they were removed? Would ships be able to attain those speeds once more.


Everyone seems to react to this from a narrow viewpoint (ie writers making mistakes or not having accurate data with which to make the series episodes) not taking into account that many missions after the balls were installed took place not too far from the Federation Core or the Klingon or Romulan Neutral Zone.

[chipbsentai]

I understand what you are trying to say. But classified Star Fleet knowledge and shipbuilding techniques PRIOR to the Excelsior Experiment could have dealt with this incongruency.

See all I am saying is that when the ship didn't have the balls on the end of the nacelles, it travelled faster and farther than it would when it had them.

Case in point-the refitted Enterprise made it to Genesis in how much time? Their engines were VERY fast. The Excelsior made it to Khitomer in How Many Hours from Federation Space?

And they all didn't have the balls on the ends of them.

Another thing is that the Sovereign class does have them within the nacelle casing. Imagine if they were removed? Would ships be able to attain those speeds once more.


Everyone seems to react to this from a narrow viewpoint (ie writers making mistakes or not having accurate data with which to make the series episodes) not taking into account that many missions after the balls were installed took place not too far from the Federation Core or the Klingon or Romulan Neutral Zone.

[spyone]

Originally posted by chipbsentai
Case in point-the refitted Enterprise made it to Genesis in how much time? Their engines were VERY fast. The Excelsior made it to Khitomer in How Many Hours from Federation Space?
.

1) How far away do you think Genesis is? IIRC, our only references for its location are the Mutara Nebula and the travel time from Earth. Given that the first time the Enterprise was there it was with a crew of Academy Cadets on a training cruise, I vote it's not far from Earth.
2) Khitomer appears to be near the Federation/Klingon border. And, IIRC, the Excelsior was not coming from Federation space, but from the neighborhood of Rura Pente, having just participated in Kirk's rescue.

[chipbsentai]

If I remember correctly, the Mutara Nebula was in a sector not too far from Regula 1 space lab. Where is Regula in comparison to Earth and Genesis Planet was formed out of the Nebular material. Also, In Star Trek III, McCoy tries to hire a ship in the bar and mentions Mutara Sector. Mutara Sector was where Genesis was.

As far as I know the communication between Enterprise and Excelsior indicated that the Peace Conference was on Camp Khitomer and that Excelsior was in Alpha Quadrant and that Khitomer was in Beta Quadrant(by reasoning)

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

You do realise the Alpha and Beta quadrants are beside each other. Enterprise and Excelsior could have been a couple light years from each other and been in different quadrants.

The 'balls' you're referring to are bussard ramscoops. All the modern era Trek ships have them, they just aren't ball-shaped.

TOS ships were not faster. This is not a debatable point, it is established Trek fact. Anything else is down to writing inconsistencies, whether you like it or not. And the people maiking the show will tell you the very same thing.

[chipbsentai]

I am not speaking from an outside viewpoint here. I know what the ramscoops are-the RED balls or other shaped sometimes blue or simetimes not even evident on the FRONT of the Nacelles.

I am speaking of the BACK of the Constitution class starship's nacelles.

Internal inconsistancies aside-I believe that Kirk was getting into too much trouble out in the beyond and starfleet had a problem with that. So, they made the balls(in my stories I call them warp field regulators) to keep the ship at slower speeds and nearer to Federation space.

And they may have classified the other nacelle types as TOP SECRET and from then on ALL Federation starships had them to limit the expansion of the Federation to a crawl.

Another idea is that a treaty with the Klingons/Romulans/Tholians/Gorn/Organians-pick one, made the technology unavailable to the fleet as a compromise.