Is "Enterprise" ......Star Trek?

[Korga]

Hey all

Ok you all probably are thinking "oh no not one of these guys again" But I think it should be brought up now..... Since it now is printed in black and white......is this a typo?....or is it now truly time for me to dispose and despise Star Trek all together?

I love Startrek, I have always been a trek fan since I was 13 years old...and I concider myself to be a "by the book kinda guy" Also I am proud to call myself a trekkie dispite the crude inconsidering remarks of small minded people.

However when my friends told me of this "New Series" and the overall look and rumors that "Enterprise" wasnt like any startrek show they had ever seen.. I kept an open mind and when it aired I watched a few shows. It wasnt long when Anger and questions began to swell because of all the inconsistancies that arose, I then proceeded to stop watching the programs and only then began taping all the programs that currently are wrong and cant typically have a place in "Real StarTrek" such as Original Series , NTG, DS-9, Voyager. It is these shows that are truly and deservingly have the right to call themselves "StarTrek"

Now I buy this RPG only to find on page 213 of the new Rpg players guide of Star Trek . It talks about the Launching of the Enterprise NX-01 ......After rigerous research..and arguements that have lasted since this razzin frazzle show started, the arguements are about to resurface all over again ...being a game master is hard enough thankyou .....but now I'm going to have to explain to my group ..(while some in my group like this new show) why they will not ever see a series in that era..(god they should have stopped after Voyger or did somthing in the movie era!) then the fight will be on....how are we as game masters supposed to make this game fun when all we are going to do is fight cause the "Enterprise" series is wrong? but some of the players wanna play that era.....Like I said earlier I did reaserch and I have discovered that infact "Enterprise" cant be cannon ...it just Cant!!!!!

I know there are people out there that like this show ( some of my friends included).... and all the power to you ...but the show isnt Cannon. There are too many inconsistancies in this series and even then do not coincide with the time line, or coincide with story line or technology wise. This Series Makes me Very Angry and now I need confermation that "Enterprise" is now considered to be cannon and/or Truly part of the Star Trek time line, or part of Star Trek in general . If it is I'd like and explanation to why it should be .

People are trying to tell me "this is what happened before Original Series...... you cant rewrite the bible. The Old Series is the "Bible" ...It's like saying ok ....now the bible has been out for centuries now and this is how it is written...ummm lets make a new bible and write what happens before there was....the creation of the universe....You Cant do that!!!!!! Why you ask? because the story has been written already!...everything else written before this is B.S. and therefore not Cannon. And thats what Roddenberry wanted thats how he wrote it that is how it is...and that being ...the Old Series and the stories that told within and after that are cannon...and is known as the " Bible"


That is my 2 cents...maybe more

[AllenS]

ok, this annoys the heck out of me.

The word is CANON. As in "collection of writings (or in this case shows) considered authoritative".

A CANNON is a big frickin' gun.


And I hate to tell all the fanboys this, but "canon" is whatever the copyright holders bloody well say it is.

You can do anything you want with your campaign. But ENTERPRISE is canon, even if it changes canon, because it's on film. Period.

Allen

[AllenS]

Moderators, I suggest moving this to Star Trek Chat.

Allen

[Tilarium]

To be fare, I hated the show at first but if your a true trek fan you would look past the errors and enjoy the show. Are you going to sit there and tell me that TNG, DS9, Voyager, and the NG movies are perfect with no errors? I can sit here and rattle off the errors I've found all of the above, does that mean that they aren't part of Star Trek? Does it make it so they should be striken from the record? No, and I'm sure you'd agree, so why should Enterprise be made null because of it's flaws?

Kyle who can't beleive he actully defended Enterprise

[Dan Stack]

Indeed this should be located elsewhere, though I don't know what purpose this thread serves.

Moving to Star Trek Chat.

-Dan Stack, Coda Moderator

[AllenS]

Originally posted by Dan Stack
Indeed this should be located elsewhere, though I don't know what purpose this thread serves.

To stir up trouble, I think.

Allen

[qerlin]

It's Trek.

Sorry, guys, but it's also fiction. It ain't real, it frequently contradicts itself, so arguing about minutae and 'canon' seems kinda petty.

[KNIGHT]

In the famous words of Captain Kirk (aka Shatner), "Get a life!" The show is fiction. Therefore not real. It was never intended to be totally consistant. It is a playground for the writers to come up with a story. The exact details of the story are fleshed out over time and are made to fit a plot line that is only determined whin the show is penned. Even the immortal Gene R. wasn't always consistant, and it was his baby. If you don't like it and can't see past that point, you have no business watching the show and should switch to Star Wars or B5 (both of which were thoughtout and written down from beginning to end before the were filmed).

Just my 2 cents.

"Suspend all disbelief and simply enjoy the show for what it is. A story."
Me

[Korga]

Oh man if you want Trouble I'll give it to ya....

First .... "Enterprise" IS NOT ...(let me repeat this) IS NOT
Startrek. This supposingly story has it's head shoved
where the sun hasnt shone for a long long time.Typically
the people whom wrote this crock didnt even take the
time to look at the other shows.

Second... Allen forgive my spelling on the word CANON I being
a simpleton as you have made me out to be seems to
have no education. And like you havent ever made a
spelling error ...I mean far be it for me to think that the
allmighty Allen has never made a mistake

I hope everyone is reading this Realizing that you make
no spelling errors .... Son I just made it my soul goal
in life to make sure that you live up to your own
expectations. I mean get real junior, I find your stupidity
to be annoying aswell as your attitude .... I also find
your lack of respect to ones opinons to be also...
intollerable. And eventhough I cannot speak for
Mr. Roddenberry I believe he would've scraped that
show at the first sign of screwing up the story line, that
would then affect future shows.

Third .... Agreed I will admit to yes....the other series were not
perfect and there were errors yes... but not to the
exstent of what they are trying to shove down our
throats on "Enterprise" for instance The meeting
of Klingons was is space...not earth
why in Gods Green Earth would Christopher Pike use
Lasers in the "Cage" when they had the "Phase Pistol"
I dont know about you but wasnt the first long range
Explorer ship the SS Valiant?.....
and this was but only three mistakes in the first show
that I choose to mention.
But I ask you now has TNG, DS-9 or Voyager ever gone
to the exstent of this much change without explaining
it? I think not.

Lastly ... I do understand that it is fiction... but the way I see it
if ya cant do it right dont do it at all !!!!!!! same applies
to all Startrek materials and if Roddenberry's approval
isnt on it ... it should be scrapped. but it is also the
minutae and canon that again may seem petty to
agrue about it. but to some ............ some of us like to
follow it like this .... funny that you all would be content
if somone took somthing that you'd love and run it into
the ground. I for one will not stand for this.

[C5]

Boy, some capacities of the human mind never cease to amaze me... and to say I've got one minde like that too...

The trouble with canon and Enterprise is that it seems to me there are a lot of things trekkies today take as canon (I use the word trekkie without any negative connotation BTW, I use it for myself sometimes too) while in fact they are fan speculations or come from non-canon sources.
The thread called "Centaurians ? Where?" comforted me in that opinion. I heard many people complain that first contact with Andorians was not what it should have been, and I guessed it was stated in an episode, but from this thread, it seems it was never more than fan speculations. This being just an example, but now I think many other "continuity violations" of Enteprise are not exactly "canon-continuity violation".

Now, if you take TOS as the bible, I'm sorry, but you'll have most of TNG, DS9 and VOY falling apart.
In one episode, Spock states that 1000 light years can be traveled in 12 hours (11 point something exactly ). There goes VOY (okay guys, we're home in one month), DS9 (who needs this freakin' wormhole to meet the Dominion), and TNG's Borgs (er... in fact, they're one month away, you know, but we never met them ).
Next. Kirk reached the border of the galaxy, and one ship did so two hundred years before IIRC. So there goes First Contact (Earth or the Federation had a good Warp capacity in 2061).
I'm not a TOS expert, so I'll stop here, but I guess there are a lot of other things like that. My point is, either you consider that once something has been said in an episode, it is carved in stone, and any further contradictions are lot of crap and the final proof that the producers are morons, or you allow some flexibility in the universe. So far, Enterprise has not utterly contradicted the rest of the series IMHO, and besides, when you hear "temporal cold war", you can expect "alternate universe".

For me, it's a good Sci-Fi show, it has a feeling of exploration and wonder very much like TOS, and I find there some of the spirit of the previous series. So for me it's Star Trek. Period. I refuse to hate a series because they use phasers while one episode made 40 years before and happening later states that they use lasers. This is only my opinion, mind you.

Sorry if there are some typos. Me bein' a foreigner, me english no too good.

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by C5

Sorry if there are some typos. Me bein' a foreigner, me english no too good.

Oh I dont know... You got your point across far more coherently than many of the screaming meanies that are suffering 'knee-jerk' reactions to Voyager and Enterprise...

[C5]

Well... thanks, Dan!!!

[Dan Stack]

While I'm not a moderator in this forum, I would suggest as a person who a good debate that name-calling and insults are not the way to intelligently critique Enterprise.

[Ineti]

Korga, I think it's pretty simple. If you don't like "Enterprise," don't watch it and don't use it in your game.

As others have mentioned, Enterprise is part of the Star Trek franchise, for better or for worse. I happen to like the show; not as much as I like DS9 or TNG, but I like it.

[Evan van Eyk]

Well I think that Enterprise is in several points more Star Trek than e.g. TNG but still it is not Trek like Roddenberry thougt it to be.
In TOS the U.S.S. Enterprise was years away from the Federation on a mission of exploration. They were pioneers and most of the time ecountered the unknown.
While TNG also had the exploration theme, there was much about politics and the Federation itself. The 'D' was not as adventurous as the original Enterprise, because they were in contact with Starfleet most of the time.
In Voyager that changed again and I believe Voyager and Enterprise are THE Trek series besides TOS. Its to boldly go where no man has gone vefore, which is the essence of Star Trek - at least for me. that is it what I like most. Venture into unknown regions and explore space, face dangers and overcome them.
On the other hand Enterprise lacks what the other series and Roddenberry always envisioned - The Federation and all over harmony of the people. There is a large gap between the Vulcans and Humans. But although Roddenberry had a rather peaceful attitude in his mind ( I mean there was a black woman on the Bridge and later a Russian ) this does not count for Enterprise. but I think that is ok, as we will see how this will all evolve.
What I do not understand is how somebody says DS9 is more Trek than ENT. DS9 had a completely different atmosphere, it was dark and there was even a war in the series, something Roddenberry would have never thought of, I believe. And whoever tries to argue what is Star Trek and what not, should first of all analyse what's most Roddenberry.
The canon argument does not count as there were more canon mistakes in other series. Just look at the Klingons in TOS and the movies they look completely different. After all one has to say that its simply make-up, because there are Klingons which changed their looks throughout the different series ( Kor, Koloth, etc ). Or I remember an Episode ( I believe it was 'Ro Laren' ) were we were able to see DS9, well it looked completely different. The Cardassians had bearts at the beginning ( the first Cardassian seen, was also Mark Alamo, but it was not Dukat, but another Gul ).
Those who do not like ENT and do not believe its Trek - don not watch it! Those who do like it - go boldly where no man has gone before.


BTW I do not remember the Valiant being mentioned in ENT, so why should it not have existeted. Hey its almost 100 years after Cochrane and as the Valiant was built in 2369, its a century in the past, why should they talk about it. And I do not know, but was it ever mentioned in TOS. Canon should first of all be what is in the series and no written stuff ( If you read some books, you have terrible canon mistakes !!!). The Klingon thing is the same, Korga. The only information we have about it from TOS is that it was a desaster.