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Thread: "Experienced" Characters?

  1. #1
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    Post "Experienced" Characters?

    Hi guys!

    Ok, wanted to see if this sounds reasonable for general consumption.

    I've noticed several comments about deciding what number of advancements to give to a character to represent a 'basic' character for that level of competence.

    Playing around, I think I've figured that the following work well (for me at least, YMMV)

    "Department Head" level (2-3 years of active service) - 6 advancements (including the one actually in the book labeled Department Head Advancement )

    "First Officer" level (5 - 6 years of active service) - another 6 for total of 12 advancements

    "Captain" level (10 - 12 years of active service) - (This is the competant, atypical command figure) 20 advancements

    Again, these are the guidelines that I feel comfortable using. How about you other folk out there? What have you found to give the right "feel" for a experienced character?

    Tom

  2. #2
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    Dept Head -- anywhere from 1-3 advancements

    XO / CO -- 4-8 seems arout right for most.


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  3. #3
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    Advancements

    I think I would allow special characters to advance a lil faster. Kirk was supposedly the youngest capt. of a starship in his era, being replaced by Tyla Scott (spelling) in TNG. Perhaps allow someone to roll and beat a certain TN (or heck, just roll 2d6 and have to get double sixes). If they make it it adds another advacement without increasing the year.

    Could also do it for those few characters who seem to enter Star Fleet at birth...hehee...seriously. If someone says "I wanna join Star Fleet when I'm 14" I'd make them roll against a certain TN. If they fail they wait another year and roll again, or until they're 18 (though that could be a good Flaw to take for certain types "You failed the enterance exam HOW MANY TIMES???")
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  4. #4
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    Re: Advancements

    Originally posted by Shoshuro
    I think I would allow special characters to advance a lil faster. Kirk was supposedly the youngest capt. of a starship in his era, being replaced by Tyla Scott (spelling) in TNG. Perhaps allow someone to roll and beat a certain TN (or heck, just roll 2d6 and have to get double sixes). If they make it it adds another advacement without increasing the year.

    Could also do it for those few characters who seem to enter Star Fleet at birth...hehee...seriously. If someone says "I wanna join Star Fleet when I'm 14" I'd make them roll against a certain TN. If they fail they wait another year and roll again, or until they're 18 (though that could be a good Flaw to take for certain types "You failed the enterance exam HOW MANY TIMES???")
    How 'bout a Personal Development Package like "Early Academy Entrance" or something to that effect...I like the idea actually to roll to see if a "kid" gets into SF. I forget which one of the TOS-Trek books revealed that Janice Rand was only 15 or 16 when she joined. Perhaps you could just take "Dark Secret: I Lied on my Academy application form...." Or maybe an ROTC Personal Development package...there's plenty of recruiters cruising the hallways of highschools right now.

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  5. #5
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    I tend to be a little more on the cheap side.

    Officer Advancements
    Ensign: 0 (Welcome aboard, sunshine!)
    Lieutenant JG: 1
    Lietenant: 2
    Lieutenant Commander: 3
    Commander: 4
    Captain: 5

    Enlisted Advancements
    Crewman Apprentice-Crewman First Class: 0
    Petty Officer 3rd Class to Petty Officer 1st Class:1
    Chief Petty Officer: 3
    Senior Chief Petty Officer: 4
    Master Chief Petty Officer: 5

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  6. #6
    Frankly, this just underscores the problem I have with a Class/Level based system.

    It has been mentioned that Captain Janeway has 45 advancements. 45! I say again, 45!!

    I find the implications disturbing. If in order to do Captain Janeway justice, they felt they had to heap 45 advancements on her, what does that say about the abilities of a starting character?

    Am I the only one here that is bothered by this?

    I'm running a Star Trek campaign to do real Star Trek. By this, I mean that my campaign is the equivalent of the next series after DS9. I want my players to feel like their character are the main characters in a real Star Trek series. Like in those series, I want my crew to be among the best and the brightest. The time of Picard, Sisko (and even Janeway) is over, eclipsed by the new people on center stage. Am I going to have to give them dozens of advancements to make them on the level they need to be on? That really seems wrong.

    At any rate, I want to see the NG if only to take a look at their NPCs. My guess is that there won't be a single senior officer from the shows below 12 advancements....maybe even higher. I have to wonder about a system that requires so much number crunching to develop characters on par with those usually featured in the tv series?

    You can't even make a real doctor without a few advancements because they can't diagnose and treat illnesses without some additional professional abilities.

    And is someone with 20+ advancements even going to be playable or is he/she going to be so kick-ass that nothing is a challenge? I don't know the answer to this question.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by els1216
    It has been mentioned that Captain Janeway has 45 advancements. 45! I say again, 45!!
    I'll address this more when I'm home, but for the moment: Els, could you point me to where you saw this figure mentioned? I don't doubt you, but I haven't seen a specific number for a specific character mentioned, and I'd like to take a look at your reference.

    Thanks.
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  8. #8
    Originally posted by PGoodman13

    I'll address this more when I'm home, but for the moment: Els, could you point me to where you saw this figure mentioned? I don't doubt you, but I haven't seen a specific number for a specific character mentioned, and I'd like to take a look at your reference.

    Thanks.
    Check under the following thread:

    http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...&threadid=4042

  9. #9
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    (shrug) You'll find Class and levels in every game system. Even the pinnacle of "class-bashing" games (ie: the White Wolf game of your choice) has them. Its just an "out of story measurement" to keep things lined up. You want to give your characters enough advancements to beat Janeway? Knock yourself off. Don't even think of playing it in my game, but have fin. Whatever level of advancement you want, ustimately, is your own choice.
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  10. #10
    Originally posted by Dave Biggins
    (shrug) You'll find Class and levels in every game system. Even the pinnacle of "class-bashing" games (ie: the White Wolf game of your choice) has them. Its just an "out of story measurement" to keep things lined up.
    I don't agree. ICON has no classes at all. Other systems don't even have templates.

    You are right, however, that it isn't as simple as class verses non-class. It is a spectrum. I admit to being biased toward the more class-light end of the spectrum. Others have their own biases. This dichotomy was an aside to my major concern which was advancement levels and game balance.

    Originally posted by Dave Biggins
    You want to give your characters enough advancements to beat Janeway? Knock yourself off. Don't even think of playing it in my game, but have fin. Whatever level of advancement you want, ustimately, is your own choice. [/B]
    My point was that I think a lot of people who want to play a Star Trek game because they look at Star Trek (whatever series is their favorite) and say "I want to do that." In my case, it was "I want to run that." My game is the "next Trek series". I want them to be handling challenges on the level of those encountered by Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway.

    Not every character is a "Janeway", but the [NPC] Captain should be on par with her at least the way she would have been at the beginning of the Voyager series. (This brings up an interesting question: is the 45 advancement version of Janeway from the end of the series or the beginning?) The chief engineer should be the next Scotty/Geordi/Behlana, the Science Officer the next Spock/Jadzia, etc., etc. The senior officers don't grow into those roles, they are in them from the start. (It's not even the beginning of the series since we've been playing for over a year under another system.)

    My ultimate question is still the same. Is a 20+ advancement character still playable or is he/she too good for the system to handle? How about 40+? I don't know that anyone has a sense of what the answer is except the designers.

    I suspect that the NG will shed some light on this when it comes out...

  11. #11
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    Okay, before anyone else gets in a tizzy about how many advancements one of the series regulars have, you have to remember that these characters are going to be the pinnacle of the game.

    Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko and Co. are all the best of the best, and will always be built on more advancements than your scrawny PC could ever dream of.

    So, I personally wouldn't use the series stars as an example of character advancement.
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  12. #12
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    No tizzy's here, bud. Just a nice discussion. The moderators here are pretty good about stamping the out.

    ELS: The Icon system actually did have classes: overlays. They just gave an "escape clause" if you wished to go simply by points. It all comes down to a matter of preferences. Some people prefer solid lines while others prefer the abstract. YMMV.

    As far as the 45 point go, like Sea Tiger said, that's the best of the best. What can Sisko do in the series? What ever is needed to fullfill the script. Again, YMMV.
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  13. #13
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    As for Janeways 45 advancements, I would assume its at the end of the series. I believe that Voyager was her first command, so I would assume she had not been a Captain for long at the start.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by els1216
    (This brings up an interesting question: is the 45 advancement version of Janeway from the end of the series or the beginning?)
    The characters that will be provided in the NG are shown at the end of their particular series (although, in the case of Deep Space Nine, they are shown prior to Sisko's disappearance).
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by els1216
    Check under the following thread:

    http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...&threadid=4042
    Thanks for the link. There's some interesting reading there.
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