Trill character questions

[Jinx]

I am wondering why the Trill characters were limited so much in terms of being joined, and in their number of past hosts. Under CODA, Trill characters must be joined and have 1 to 3 previous hosts. However, under the old ICON system, they could be unjoined; and if joined, they could be the first host, or have a greater number of past hosts (though that system also recommended 3 or less).

Not allowing for unjoined Trill precludes the majority of the species from being used. Unjoined Trill are obviously in Starfleet, as Ezri was unjoined before being forced to except the Dax symbiote. After her joining presents another problem; by that point Dax had something like 8 previous hosts (I guessing here), which can't be accounted for under the rules either.

My guess would be that the potential strength of the joined species ability is why the limitations were placed. A large number of previous hosts makes the joined ability fairly powerful, and also makes being the first host virtually useless. And if you tried to make an unjoined Trill by simply excluding the joined ability, they would be left with only the Skilled species ability, making them under powered compared to other species.

I am considering a 'house rule' alteration for determining number of previous host to use a new formula. Roll 2d6 and allow the roll again on 6's rule. Take the total of the die rolls, divide by 3, and round down to get the number of past hosts. This allows for being the first host (you would have to roll 2 one's to get that result), and would usually result in 2 previous hosts (2d6 yielding a 7 result on average) but would allow for a higher number of previous hosts (you would need to roll at least four 6's to get Dax's number of previous hosts). I think this will probably be workable.

I don't know what to do about unjoined Trill however. I am considering an extra courage point (and ICON gave them +1 courage, so it isn't completely out of line), but this would probably apply to both joined and unjoined Trill.

Any ideas/comments?

[C5]

First, welcome to the boards, Jinx.

Secondly, some comments :
Personnally I don't like much randomness in character creation (this mainly because I'm the Mister Critical Failures in my gaming group ), so my view here would be to use the same system as in LUG, that is, simply leaving the player decide, in accord with the GM. Optionnally, you could make extra hosts an edge, requiring a corresponding flaw to be taken; for instance, something like three hosts/edge (the first three being given in the template without having to take an extra flax). That way, a Dax character would need to take two flaws to have 8 previous hosts (like Jadzia who had the Arrogant disavantage in LUG, and Ezri the Space Sickness one - both tied somehow to their joining).
Also, I'd make the Transporter Incompatibility (forgot the actual name ) an optional flaw the character could take (instead of rolling it randomly), giving another edge to pick.
These are purely personal house rules, mind - and so far, the Trill player (in LUG) has left the game, so I don't expect any Trill in my games soon.

As for the unjoined Trill lacking an edge, this is indeed a valid point... I don't remember the precise name, but you could grant them the Skilled edge the humans have (the one that gives some extra picks IIRC). It could reflect the fact that all Trills are a rather enterprising species, but the joining somehow dulls that by giving them much more experience (mind, with that justification, the extra courage point works as well). Some explanation....

[CorpBoy]

Originally posted by Jinx
I don't know what to do about unjoined Trill however. I am considering an extra courage point (and ICON gave them +1 courage, so it isn't completely out of line), but this would probably apply to both joined and unjoined Trill.

Any ideas/comments?

Would there be something wrong with simply not allowing unjoined Trill to have the Joined species ability? I know that leaves them with only one species ability. It just seemed like the most logical approach.

[Calcoran]

I like the +1 CP. It is fast and not-so-dirty. See, as C5 said, unjoined trills can be considered younger somehow, more enterprising, and so on. This is well represented by the extra CP. The joining gives them experiences of several lifetimes, but also takes a bit of that youth away. In effect, the character gives up this extra CP.

I also like the 1 edge = 1..X previous hosts. If you want more hosts this is equivalent to more edges, so you need to take flaws to counterbalance this. Actually I'd probably set X to 2 rather than 3 (for instance, for 5 hosts you need 3 edges). Think of the number of flaws that Ezri "gained" with the joining, and that she spent a good part of the season to buy off. Maybe even this is exactly what this training is, that the Trills have to undergo before being considered worthy to be joined (and that Ezri couldn't): Gaining enough advancements to buy off most of these flaws.

[tonyg]

I'd agree with C5 on this.

I'd say make extra past hosts an edge. That keep it fair as far as the game rules go. Since the Joining ability seems to count as two edges, I'd say 1 edge per extra host in order to keep the ability on par with similar edges and abilies in the game.


As for unjoined Trill. The problem is that the species write up needed to be game balanced, and the deginers figured most people who wanted to play Trill would want to be joined. For unjoined Trill, I'd suggest giving them some other Edge or maybe two:

If the character has the potential to be joined, I'd say give them another edge, possibly the +1 Courage that Jinx suggested. Later on the character could probably be joined, based on game considerations, and costing either 3 or 5 picks.

If the character is unsuitable for joining, work it as above, except that "Unsuitaible for Joining" would be a flaw, and count as one of the character's starting flaws, and be worth an addtional edge.

[Jinx]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I like the idea of extra hosts being an edge that has to be balanced by flaws, which could later be 'bought off'. It provides good balance. I don't know offhand how many hosts I would allow per edge; both the 3 per edge and 1 per edge that have been suggested have merit. It would require a little more looking into to figure a good balance.

The idea of having an edge for being joinable and a flaw for being unjoinable is also a promising one.

Using this as a basis, an unjoined Trill could get the skilled edge and +1 CP, and a joined Trill could be built as written up in the PG. A joined Trill could then buy extra hosts as edges by picking up additional flaws (I would allow them to go over the initial edge/flaw limit for this purpose). An unjoined could pick up the joinable edge allowing them to buy the joined ability at a later time. If they instead decided to take the unjoinable flaw they could be allowed to take an additional edge to offset that, but would then not be allowed to ever buy off the flaw (I have assume the Trill can't be altered to be joinable, or that it has never been attempted due to scarcity of symbiotes).

[tonyg]

According to DS9- All Trill can be joined!

This is a big secret, since there aren't enough symbionts to go around.

THat how Dax would up in an insane host.


For the game, someone who is UnJOINABLE means that they have been declared unift for joining for some reason, usually becuase of some sort of flaw. It could be a physical one that could endanger the symbiont (like Slow Healer), but more likey pyscholgical reasons.

Basically, since everyone wants one and there are only a few to go around, a Trill has to be the best of the best to get a symbiont.

[Jinx]

Originally posted by tonyg
According to DS9- All Trill can be joined!

This is a big secret, since there aren't enough symbionts to go around.

I definitely agree that the Trill government covers up the fact that a large portion of the population can be joined, since as mentioned there are so few symbiotes to go around. But I don't think they are all joinable; I thought that they said something like 50% are capable of being joined. Either way, there are far too many candidates for the number of symbiotes available.

[Kronok]

Originally posted by tonyg
Basically, since everyone wants one and there are only a few to go around, a Trill has to be the best of the best to get a symbiont.

Actually, some Trill do not want to be joined, like Ezri. She thought the idea of being joined to be creepy.

But, yes, the Trill Symbiosis Commision withholds the fact that most Trill can be joined.

[Calcoran]

I think I heard/saw/read somewhere that there were in fact much more symbionts than was commonly known. Watched over by people from the Trill Symbiosis Commision in some dark caves or something. Wasn't there something like that?

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by tonyg
According to DS9- All Trill can be joined!

This is a big secret, since there aren't enough symbionts to go around.

THat how Dax would up in an insane host.

To quote the Star Trek Encyclopedia:

Under Trill Symbiosis Commission: "When Jadzia Dax fell ill in 2371, her friends learned that nearly half the Trill population was capable of being joined." (Which contradicts official rhetoric, whuich states only one in ten can be.) Also it says the Commission oncealed this becuase the limited number of symbionts could "become commodities to be bought and sold."

Under Dax, Joran: "Joran was deemed unsuitable for joining, but was mistakenly accepted as an initiate by the Trill Symbiosis Commission."

As for an unjoined Trill, if you wanted to play one, as a Narrator I would suggest just using the Trill as they stand, minus the joining ability. If they wanted to be joined later, I would just use it as a story factor and give them the remaining ability. After all, the player is willing giving up the most potent Species Ability for the sake of the sotry he wants to play in. Anyone willing to do so should, IMO, be prepared to live with the consequences. (It may seem kind of harsh, but I think charging them later for an ability they have voluntarily relinquished is just as harsh, if not more so.)

But that's me. Feel free to disregard at your leisure.

[Sea Tyger]

I have a couple of thoughts here:

1. I like Doug's idea of simply not taking the Joined ability if the character wants his Trill to be able to be joined later in the series, just as a plot device and not costing the character any picks.

For those who want to play one of the 50% of Trill who are unsuitable for joining, I suggest using tonyg's idea of giving the character a flaw (I would think the character could choose from a small list of them) that simulates their unsuitability and compensating that with an extra Edge. These characters cannot choose to be joined at a later date.

2. On the number of previous hosts...I'd say that no matter how many hosts the Trill has, they cannot benefit from more than three (as far as skills, etc., go). Meaning, even with Jadzia Dax having 7 (?) previous hosts, she still only receives a maximum of +3 to all Knowledge skill tests, 3 trained skills that she can use untrained, and 3 extra professional skills.

This way, you get the cinematic effects (having a symbiot that's been around the Federation a couple of times) without overbalancing the game.

[Jinx]

I agree that a large number of past hosts could potentially unbalance a character. I'm hoping the NG will have a writeup for one of the Dax characters to guage how they handled her multiple hosts. I had also considered applying a 'cap' at 3 hosts for purposes of the benefits received and just having additional hosts be story factors. I'll reserve judgement on this until I have seen if the NG shows a Dax example.

Beyond that I have decided on an Edge/Flaw system for extra hosts and being unjoined.

Being unjoined would be accomplished by taking a new flaw called Unjoined (not original, I know). This flaw would simply eliminate the Joining species ability for the character. This flaw could be used as the flaw that can be taken during development to get your character an extra edge. If the character wants to be joined later, he can buy off the flaw, provided the story element is worked out with the Narrator.

Additional previous hosts would be accomplished with an Edge called Extra Previous Hosts. The mechanics of this would depend on how the NG shows characters like Dax handling the large number of previous hosts (if it does). If the Joining ability is 'capped' at a certain level, the edge may be unnecessary or required only once. If there is not a 'cap' established I would make it an upgradeable edge, with each pick proving two more previous hosts, and probably still capping it an additional 6 hosts (which under my system would require 3 edges to accompilsh).

I would also allow for a flaw called First Host, for Trill that are the first host to their symbiote. This would most like be functionally equivalent to Unjoined, since the Joining ability would give them no benefit with no previous hosts, but it would actually be a bigger flaw. The character would still have the 1 in 3 chance of not being able to use a transporter safely, and unlike Unjoined this couldn't be bought off at a later time. Of couse being joined would allow the character to come back after death in a manner of speaking. The symbiote could be placed in another character (create a new one from scratch) but would have memories of its previous life and could be reintegrated into the party. This is like the Jadzia/Ezri transition and is basically just a story factor.

[tonyg]

Lets, see--

Edge: Extra Hosts
Your character's simbiont has been around for many years and has had several hosts.


PREREQUISTIES: THis Edge can only be taken by Trill characters. It can only be taken during character creation, representing the simbiont's expertiences prior to being joined.

EFFECTS: When determining the number of past hosts for the character, add three to the total.

UPGRADABLE: Yes, but only during character creation.

[Sea Tyger]

Actually, the chance for being suseptible to transporter damage is 1 in 6. For those 16% of joined Trill, there's a 2 in 6 chance of taking damage with each transport.