Chaplains in Starfleet

[Ezri's Toy]

Originally posted by FDor
I think that there are no special chaplains in Starfleet roster. Counselor has taken a role of 'chaplain' as a person you can talk to if you have to.

[snip]

Just thinking about how many religions there are in Earth nowadays (count in all branches and cults) and then expand that to hundreds or thousands of planets. It would require a fleet of chaplains to be spear around all ships. =)

[snip]

Vesku

I have to agree here.

If you want to be true to Roddenberry, humans of the future are supposed to evolve beyond the need for gods altogether. To see the TREK stance on religion, one only needs to watch TOS's "Who Mourns For Adonais?" and TNG's "Who Watches The Watchers."

Roddenberry (as well as his friend, Isaac Asimov) was a (secular) Humanist and positted that the majority of humanity would have adopted Humanism or a similar philosophy by TREK's time frame. Humanism embraces reason, democracy, and compassion above all else, is staunchly atheistic, and believes that mankind has the ability to solve its own problems without the need for gods or religions.

While I am not an atheist (I am Taoist & Buddhist), I personally find that Humanism is the only agreeable form of atheism.

My point in this: There wouldn't be a chaplains corps in Starfleet because the majority of Humanist mankind wouldn't have a use for it. And, although Vulcans have a non-theistic religion similar to Buddhism, their adherence to logic, reason, and freedom would also obviate the need for an organized chaplains corps.

That mankind is Humanist in the future doesn't mean religion, at large, would vanish. . . (There are the Bajorans, for example). But, Starfleet, as a policy, would leave the practice of religion up to the individual practitioner.

So, from the Roddenberry perspective, the Counselors Corps is the Chaplains Corps. (But, of course, that doesn't have to be the case for your game.)

(PS: For more information on Humanism, go to: http://www.americanhumanist.org/ )

[qerlin]

Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
So, from the Roddenberry perspective, the Counselors Corps is the Chaplains Corps. (But, of course, that doesn't have to be the case for your game.)

I concur.

[Paul Dowsland]

It's an interesting point. I was going to make an NPC Starbase Admiral incidentally a Methodist Christian, but hadn't got as far as linking this into the game.

I reckon Ezri's Toy has got the subject exactly right. With so many species and the potential diversity of faiths that could exist, if there is something the secular Counsellor can't help with, then pastoral care for the individuals choosing to practise any particular religion would I think be more likely fall to subspace network communities (possibly centred on "civilian" communities on inhabited planets in a sector) rather than on-site "chaplains", there being unlikely to be more than a handful of practicioners of any particular religion on any base or starship. Of course aboard a ship, those with religious faith might well hold multi-faith meetings or services, which could give rise to a few stories...

The notion of a US military Chaplaincy described earlier seems a bit militant for an exploratory body such as Starfleet. A bit too much of the old "humans only club" showing through, eh?

Apart from the episodes mentioned earlier, probably the longest running and most developed example of attitude to religion is of course the Bajoran "prophets", who are to Starfleet "wormhole aliens" whose powers are just "not understood yet", rather than "holy".

[toadkiller]

All that being said there is no reason that a Counselor can't also be a priest/priestess/whatever as well. In fact there are already pastoral counselors and psychologists who deal with spiritual issues.

Obviously they will have to interweave their belief structure into the "Starfleet way of life" but that could be a plot point too.

[Paul Dowsland]

Amen to that!

[Trinity Zeldis]

"For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without, no explanation will suffice."

I've heard this many times. Even before Kira said it on DS9. This is just one of those things where it will be decided on the situation. The game in which I played the engineer/priest, no one else on board followed the religion. There was no prosletyzing (sp?). He was just seen as an eccentric back up to the counselor. Or has stated in one game, "Every system needs built in redundancy. I am the redundancy."

Religion, like politics, is one of those things in which everyone is right, but no one is correct. Starfleet shows a reliance on the self, this is true. However, and I didn't want to bring this up, but Uhura says it in Bread and Circuses, "They aren't talking about the sun. They are talking about the son of God." There is also an episode in which Kirk mentions a beleif structure hinging on the Judeo-Christian core (I am unable to recollect the episode just yet).

No matter what, religion is one of those things a gamemaster/referree/narrator must decide how he wants to handle as in all games.

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Dan Gurden
Well, if your going into CODA, your problems are solved. Use the Mystic profession.

I thought that you could not duel class a PC. So you can not be a Starship Officer and a Mystic. So using the Mystic Profession may not allow you to go into one of the Starship Elite Professions like Starship Councilor unless you take the Innovative Edge and take Starship Duty.

Reading the Player's Guide it says the following:

Originally posted by Star Trek Player's Guide pg 73
The Starship Councilor is responsable for the emotional well-being of the ship's crew. Because of the nature of long space exploration-- long seperations from home, isolation from relatives, encounters with extrodanary phenomena, stress-- they provide individual guidance and advice to crewmembers.

Sounds to me like the Ship's Councilor can also be Priest, Vedek, Rabbi etc. Many times spirtual leaders do these kind of jobs even if they are not the same faith like a Military Chaplin, who not only performs ceremonies and advice for his religon but is expected to with others. Even help those in a non faith circumstance like the above quote says. Or use their faith in what the above quote says. Reading further it sounds like this can also be the job of a religious leader.

[Trinity Zeldis]

*Cringe, twinge, grrk, SPROING*

Oh, sorry. But the above reference to dual classing a PC smacked me upside the head in a rude way. Having not seen CODA enough to make any comment, please someone tell me that the mentioned reference was that person's own interpretation of the system and not an actual game mechanic? If it is a game mechanic, I shall continue to use LUG and not bother with CODA. If it is a preference, I shall still endeavor to give it a shot (providing I can find anyone who roleplays in this hellhole).

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Trinity Zeldis
*Cringe, twinge, grrk, SPROING*

Oh, sorry. But the above reference to dual classing a PC smacked me upside the head in a rude way. Having not seen CODA enough to make any comment, please someone tell me that the mentioned reference was that person's own interpretation of the system and not an actual game mechanic? If it is a game mechanic, I shall continue to use LUG and not bother with CODA. If it is a preference, I shall still endeavor to give it a shot (providing I can find anyone who roleplays in this hellhole).

Actually it is a game mechanic and it was a response to a CODA Answer to a CODA question. Having All the LUG and CODA. I preffer CODA. Not all the Professions and Elite Professions are out at this time. I would recomend looking at CODA before making a reference you prefer LUG over CODA. You can Dual Elite Class and Trust me it makes sense when reading through the system for ICON.

[Trinity Zeldis]

It just strikes me as a cheap cop out so far. I shall, however, continue to reserve judgement until I have seen it in play. The idea of a class based mechanic, for any reason, goes against the Star Trek grain. There is obviously a "class" system in place for Starfleet, but there aren't any real cookie cutter molds to the various "classes." Just please tell me there aren't levels as well. Please let there be some hope.

[Dan Gurden]

It rather depends on your definition of 'Duel Class'.

If you mean the heavily blinkered, imagination free version of "the rules say no, then thats what I do..." Then yes. CODA does not allow for the ludicrous idea of Dual Classing.

What CODA does is follow the real-life path of focusingf on job related skills.

Therefore a character will find it easier to learn and develop skills used everyday. But there is nothing stopping a character from learning extra skills. It is simply a little more difficuly to break out of the loop (ie; cost a couple more development points). Just like in the real world.

And then the Elite Professions seem to have a minimum ability Pre-reqs. So for example. A Mystic, who somehow found themselves the proud owners of the relevant pre-requisites could fulfill any Starship position also.

And thats with just the tiniest application of an imagination.

Just imagine how far you could go if you really thought about it!

[/Sarcasm mode deactivated]

[Trinity Zeldis]

As I have said, I have only been able to give CODA a very cursory glance ("What you think this is, a library? Buy it or go home!"), and I am not willing to shell out the money for a system I know only a very little about. As such, I must rely on what I read on this board (for I consider it to be the only Trek rpg forum around with any semblance of intelligent rhetoric) to give me an indicator of how the system fairs.

Class is a term that denotes a strict pigeon-hole effect on game play. I avoid it like the plague (the reason I don't play Rifts, Dungeons and Dragons, or a cornucopia of other copycat games). If I seem like I have little imagination, it is only because I must use conservative definitions when speaking on something I know nothing about. That is also why I asked for an explanation.

Now, thank you for answering my question, shall we get back to the topic at hand which is, "Why my IDIC is bigger than your dogma."

[Kosst Amojan]

Let me start by saying, I am myself a devout Southern Baptist. I try to always incorporate some facet of faith in my games. I do agree with those of you that have said the majority of people in the future of our beloved Star Trek world are atheistic. Rather I should say the majority of Starfleet personnel.

Somebody pointed out this reflect's Roddenberry's humanistic philosophy. I think this is quite true. Star Trek was his vision of the future. However, I think you can fit faith and religion into your games.

I don't think Starfleet would have chaplains. However, I don't think they would restrict different religions in their ranks, in fact they would probably encourage them. Whose to say that a group of Baptists, Catholics, or Bajorans wouldn't have their own little group on a starship? I think this is more realistic than Starfleet actually condoning a particular faith. Thanks for the great discussion thread!

[Cochrane]

Would it work to simply ignore the rule in question if it exists? If not I'm sure it would work to create rules for a chaplain within starship officer along side command, counselor, etc.

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Kosst Amojan
Let me start by saying, I am myself a devout Southern Baptist. I try to always incorporate some facet of faith in my games. I do agree with those of you that have said the majority of people in the future of our beloved Star Trek world are atheistic. Rather I should say the majority of Starfleet personnel.

Somebody pointed out this reflect's Roddenberry's humanistic philosophy. I think this is quite true. Star Trek was his vision of the future. However, I think you can fit faith and religion into your games.

I don't think Starfleet would have chaplains. However, I don't think they would restrict different religions in their ranks, in fact they would probably encourage them. Whose to say that a group of Baptists, Catholics, or Bajorans wouldn't have their own little group on a starship? I think this is more realistic than Starfleet actually condoning a particular faith. Thanks for the great discussion thread!

I actually disagree. I think yes they would as long as the Priest, Rabbi, Preacher, Priestess, Vedek, etc. are tolerant of other religons. Everyone seems to think just Humans and Bajorans are the only religous races in Star Trek. We seem to also forget our Vulcans. Their religous beliefs or have you all forgotten the Vulcan Priestess T'Pau in Amok Time TOS Episode and Priestess T'Lar from Star Trek 3: Search for Spockand let's not forget Star Trek 6: Undiscovered Country where we see Spock meditaiting and praying for example.
If we use the LUG books such as Way of Kalinar (The Vulcan Book) and Way of the Clans (The Andorian Book) both mention these races having many different religons. These are all Federation Races. This does not include the Bajorans and the Klingons that are not part of the Federation.
If anyone has served in the Military or know how the Military functions they know that Chaplins on board do not condone a particaliar Faith. Infact the Military has about every religon that they can think of including Wiccan and Hindu for example on your recruitment forms. Chaplin's duty on board is not to promote his faith but make sure the services and various religous needs of the crew are needed. Even those not of his own faith. The US Navy (Where Gene based many of his Starfleet Structure on) for example has a school called RP. The RP school has soldiers trained to assist the Chaplins with services and the various religons he may not be familair with as he sets up schedules for services and holidays on board his ship. And yes her performs services for his faith and sometimes others. Other times he has volunteers of the crew in that faith run the services. He would also make sure the last religous rights are performed for the crewmember when they die. Making sure the funeral is done for that crew member correctly.
My roommate was in Desert Storm on a ship. He said that the ship he was on was prodimant Protostant but the Chaplin was a Roman Catholic Priest. Yet the Father also had to deal with Catholic, Lutherian, Muslim, Hindu and the Wiccan faiths for example. He was able to do this for a crew of 1500. This would be the job of the of a Starfleet Chaplin. Imagine a Bajoran Priest having to deal with various religons for different crew members or the Vulcan Priestess. Or Someone is having spirtual needs the the Roman Catholic Priest advices the best he can on faith.
I have always felt we bypassed this prejudice religous issues we have and realize we may all be different but it comes down to faith. Even someone else's faith can open my own in a new way. If we to explore new life and new civilizations that means finding out about each other and what we beleive in.