Academies

[FDor]

Hello

After doing a few characters into this game we came across the fact that the Starfleet does not educate their officers.
When you create a character you take species knowledge and language skills (2xint), personal development pack and professional package. Professional package includes something like 20 skill levels to skills learned in 4 years of academy or street (where the time varies of course). The same amount of skill levels gets distributed even if the character is a graduate from 6 years school (sciences, I'd assume).

Then if you start thinking about the episodes. The SF Academy grows students as persons, they learn a lot of more things than just piloting the ship or fixing the warp drive core. They participate in challencing events like that maraton run.
So, Picard won the run, didn't he? With what? Administration?
Wow. How about learning sciences? Future Captain's do not need to know anything about Sciences.. And you can not even use sciences without having skill levels in them. =)
First Aid would be something that I'd expect every Military Academy graduatee to know. And don't forget the way Starfleet officers manage to survive in lots of different and difficult conditions. How can they manage that without Survival? And they know how to act as a group - there is a skill to cover this one too - Tactics.

So to overcome this fact and to really make Starfleet Officers ELITE as the should be we came up with this idea of adding some skill levels to characters while in Academy. In fact 21 skill levels in total. Before you yelp out loud please look them through. We have not playtested them yet but I believe that they will not affect balance too much - after all this game is tuned so that characters will survice. =)

And I did also Klingon academy too. For sake of balance they get also the same 21 skill levels - just to differently tuned.

Some academies to do would be Romulan, Cardassian and some science academies as well.

Starfleet Academy
The first two years include mandatory courses for all Starfleet Academy students.
1 level in each skill:
Athletics, Computer Use, First Aid, Gymnastics, Investigate (Research), Observe, Ranged Combat (Energy weapons), Science (physical), Survival and Tactics.
Since the academy provides a creative and sourceful atmosphere pick 10 skill levels assignable to skills from the following list. Maximum number of picks per skill is skill's attribute modifier on character (if character has intellect 10 (+2) then he can take only 2 picks on a intellect modified skills) but character can always take at least one level. Speciality can be attained spending one level on skill. These skills are semi-mandatory in Starfleet Academy:
Armed combat, Athletics, Computer use, Craft, Entertain, First Aid, Gaming, Gymnastics, Influense, Inquire, Investigate, Knowledge, Language, Observe, Persuade, Ranged Combat, Science, Sport, Stealth, Survival, Tactics and Unarmed combat.

Klingon Military Academy
There are some mandatory courses every student of Klingon Military Academy must go through.
1 level in each skill:
Armed Combat (Klingon) ,Athletics, Computer Use, Conceal, Gymnastics, Influense (intimidate), Ranger Combat (Energy Weapons), Science (physical), Survival and Tactics.
Since Klingon Instructors expect their students to perform outstandingly in any situation they encourage trainees to take lessons in following skills. Maximum number of picks per skill is skill's attribute modifier on character (if character has intellect 10 (+2) then he can take only 2 picks on a intellect modified skills) but character can always take at least one level. Speciality can be attained spending one level on skill.
Armed Combat, Athletics, Computer Use, Conceal, Construct, Demolitions, Entertain, Gymnastics, Influense, Knowledge, Observe, Ranged Combat, Science, Sport, Stealth, Survival, Tactics and Unarmed Combat.

Vesku

[agdiv]

this looks really good, i'll plan on adding it to my game when it starts up. at least to see how well it truely balances out in play.

[FDor]

I must point out that we did not try to make the characters too powerful with that Academy addition. That is the reason why skill levels are generally low. And there is still that maximum starting skill level of 6 that applies.

Some of the studies are meant to be mandatory and semi mandattory. And the rest try to focus on fact how the cadets use their off time. Some prefer entertainment and some use that time to study.
Of course we assume that there are no characters that do nothing. Only the best and the motivated are even accepted to the Academy. Even the treshold to get there is quite high.
So we assume that the characters are like this.

In some professional packages characters get same skills as in 'early years' but that only means that they get more detailed education on that.

Something that we are still missing are the competitions and thesises.

We need to found out what kind of comptetitions there are in the Academy. I recall at least the Maraton and some shuttle piloting comptetition (Wesley participated in one?). And we assume that it does not matter where do you graduate from you have to do some kind of master thesis or graduation work. All that helps out create a history to the character.
So do you readers have any ideas what kind of comptetition might be going on in Klingon Academy? =)


Vesku

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by FDor
So do you readers have any ideas what kind of comptetition might be going on in Klingon Academy?

Umm...Klin'zha?

I would expect that there would be "martial arts" competitions, both armed and unarmed. Also, things like Orientation contests...IOW, drop the Klingon in the middle of some wilderness with (maybe) a compass and enough food for the first day and see how long it takes for him to get back...or, a team game where each team races to be the first to some point.

Other competitions would probably include a sophisticated form of capture the flag.

Back to Starfleet Academy, I would assume that there would be a team for every sport that remains. One of my characters played rugby at the academy...I'm sure there are zero-G handball teams and (in the 24th C.) probably a Paresis Squares team.

As far as the mechanics go, even with the 10 skill levels of extras limit, I think it may be too much...I'd recommend cutting that in half to 5 or 6 total levels available to cadets, and limiting them to taking only 1 rank in each. YMMV.

[Almos]

As long as everyone starts at the same level I think it'll work out fine...

[CmdrBluejeans]

Originally posted by FDor
Then if you start thinking about the episodes. The SF Academy grows students as persons, they learn a lot of more things than just piloting the ship or fixing the warp drive core. They participate in challencing events like that maraton run.
So, Picard won the run, didn't he? With what? Administration?
Wow. How about learning sciences? Future Captain's do not need to know anything about Sciences.. And you can not even use sciences without having skill levels in them. =)

I guess my biggest concern with this is that it works backwards.

The sciences example supposes that /all/ Starfleet Captains start off their careers as Starship Command Officers, when every canonical example we have shows this to be the exception, in fact, rather than the rule -- Kirk started in Security, Picard in Flight Control or Sciences (depending on how you read between the lines), Sisko in Engineering, and Janeway in Sciences. They learn by switching professions as they go.

I suppose I feel this could be better handled simply by broadening the way in which someone gets to spend their 'free' Intellect x2 picks.

BJ

[Sea Tyger]

Excellent point, Blue, although the NG shows Picard as only being a Command officer.

Q for CodaGURUs: Did you inlcude former professions for the various example characters, like Janeway being a former science officer (and you just didn't include it in their professions)?

[FDor]

Not everybody in the game can always start as equal..
Since it is more easy to use modern day examples I give out to you
a fresh guy who has just graduated from a school that teaches him how to do electrical work (Here in Finland that is a three year school, two years if you have completed High School). He is but a 19 or 20 years of age. A young guy but who can go to work and earn money.
a college graduatee. He had to go to High School to get to the college and it took him 6 years to graduate as Electrical Engineer. He is 25 years old.

They both end up signing up contract to work on a ship. While Engineer usually does not have all the skills electrician has he is generally better becouse of his extensive and longer training.
And to reflect that the modern day company pays the Engineer more money than to the electrician.

Now, let's hop to the Star Trek world.
If someone goes trough Academy he gets extensive knowledge. Someone who 'chooses' to be a rogue does not get much education (maybe some short courses now and then and working in different places, having hobbies and interests) but he is generally younger than a fresh Starfleet Ensign.

There is a point to have colleges and academies around. =)

If the crew consisted of rogue and SF Ensign then to balance that narrator could give rogue four advancements. Maybe rogue has been roaming around Mutara Sector for four years already. Surely he has picked up some nice skills and traits. Then he will have much more hands on experience than a fresh Ensign. And thus generally making him a much more valuable member to rogue crew than a new Ensign. Why would they still have Ensign on board? The knowledge. The skills (other than pirating) do count. SF Ensign is not just a another rookie. He possesses a lots of potential, he has skills and knowledge that ordinary people does not has. And on top of that he is more or less trained soldier. Since Academy is not de facto military academy they are not killing machinces but they know of responsibility, honor, leadership and of course their speciality skills. They have the knowledge but they do not how to utilize it fully.

And the same goes to Klingons and Romulans and to other major spacefaring races.

And I repeat that SF Academy is considered to be a Elite training ground. To put it bluntly Starfleet Officers are the best of the best. =)

So then it is the question about actual game mechanics.
Sea Tyger, did you suggest that after receiving 11 skill levels the extra 10 should be halved?
The reason why I don't like the max 1 skill level is that some people want to concentrate on some areas of interest and they could give less attention to other parts. The maximum character can put on a skill is 3 anyway (ability mod of 13), maybe on some rare cases that might be 4.
Of course that 10 skill levels can be abused but taking the number of skills that you can distribute it in then it is not that much. If character ignores sciences (and it is a skill group with life sciences, physical, planetology and space sciences, did I miss anything) he must have at least a one skill level in each to know even very basic things. Without a skill level in life sciences character does not know that human is a mammal. According to the rules. So there is an option to change the rules or change the skills characters get.

I did not want to force every academy graduate to take a skill level in all sciences, that would mold up characters maybe a bit too much into same mold. In practice they have to take a skill level but if they don't they have succesfully lived without ever hearing that planets orbit the sun.. =)

Ok, some things must be taken for granted. Maybe it was just a bad example from game designers to add that Simple task to know that human is a mammal. Maybe that does not apply to characters own race. =)

Vesku

[Lancer]

I don't have my Player's Guide at hand, so excuse me if I misname a thing or two here, okay?

Originally posted by FDor
So, Picard won the run, didn't he? With what? Administration?

I don't have the NG yet, so I can't say what the game makes of Picard in terms of skills, egdes, etc., but for an answer how about:
A lucky die roll, a good stamina edge (to keep running while all the others suffer from exhaustion penalties), putting some of his personal development points into athletics, etc....

Wow. How about learning sciences? Future Captain's do not need to know anything about Sciences.. And you can not even use sciences without having skill levels in them. =)

As has been pointed out already not every Command Officer starts in sciences. If you feel a character needs these skills at the start of the game pick the right package for it during the background developments - if you don't find one that provides these skills, just make your own package. And you can always buy them 2:1 as nonprofessional skills. Or use Innovative to get the Journeyman ability to use any science skill untrained. Or go the way that's written into the Starship Officer profession: Rounded allows you to choose additional professional skills.
Okay, it's an ability from the base profession and you only get Starship Duty during character creation + 1 from the EP, but I don't think you would bend the rules too much if you take Rounded instead of the EP professional ability to get another skill.

First Aid would be something that I'd expect every Military Academy graduatee to know. And don't forget the way Starfleet officers manage to survive in lots of different and difficult conditions. How can they manage that without Survival? And they know how to act as a group - there is a skill to cover this one too - Tactics.

Many skills can be used untrained. Starfleet officers (like everybody else) can do a lot of things outside their professional skills already.
Okay, you receive a -2 to your test result, so it's unlikely you'll get as good a result as someone trained in these skills would, but I don't think that's too bad. As Starfleet makes a lot of equipment available to its crews your are likely to get an euipment bonus to many skills, even the ones you use untrained. So I don't think your typical starfleet crew will suffer too much from untrained skill use. And as far as Tactics are concerned: Acting together as a group IMHO is more a matter of roleplaying and not of having a special skill.

To sum this all up:
Do I think your academies are a cool idea? Yes, as a matter of fact I do.
Do I think they add something to the game that's necessary or can't be had any other way? No, not really.

But as always, these are just my personal 0.02€ and YMMV.

[Champions Guru]

I like the idea of an Acadamy, but I think that there should be a system for everyone to go through some kind of training before they enter their professions such as Trade School, College, etc. This type of training doesn't really apply to professions like Rogues that don't have formal training and until this can be overcome makes those with Acadamy training overbalanced.

Champions Guru

[AslanC]

Interesting idea.

I think it address my main problem with the Character Creation system. Once you start your elite profession, that is the one you are in no? I can't for a moment claim to fully understand the character creation system, but I think that is it.

As for the Command Branch concept, I stand by the old FASA rule that you start in a department and then go to command school somewhere down the line. It just seemed easier for Helmsmen and other Gold (now Red) shirts.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Champions Guru
I like the idea of an Acadamy, but I think that there should be a system for everyone to go through some kind of training before they enter their professions ...

In a way that's what happens during character creation if you think of the "professional development" as the training everybody goes through, be that a formal schooling in some kind of academy, training with the old master on the lonely mountaintop or the scholl of hard knocks as you grow up on the street.

Just take a look at character creation not from the perspective of the gamer, but from the character's POV:
During you childhood you learn about your species culture and languages (Species Skills). Next you get some schooling and pick up the background development. Then you choose a job (Profession) and undergo some sort of schooling in that job (Professional development). Once that is done you enter your profession, i.e. start playing your character.

It's all there, only the order you go through these stages is slightly different from the game-mechanics POV, the reason for that being that you need to know what your professional skills are before you choose the development packages.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Champions Guru
I like the idea of an Acadamy, but I think that there should be a system for everyone to go through some kind of training before they enter their professions such as Trade School, College, etc. This type of training doesn't really apply to professions like Rogues that don't have formal training and until this can be overcome makes those with Acadamy training overbalanced.

Champions Guru

Why wouldn't it apply in some cases for Rogues, remember Vash...She seemed highly trained in her area of interest.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Phantom
Why wouldn't it apply in some cases for Rogues, remember Vash...She seemed highly trained in her area of interest.

Vash could have been either a Scientist or a Rogue (although more likely a Rogue). Either way, she could just have had a lot of advancements and used the Innovative Edge to get Professional Abilities from the other class...

[FDor]

Many skills can be used untrained. Starfleet officers (like everybody else) can do a lot of things outside their professional skills already.
Okay, you receive a -2 to your test result, so it's unlikely you'll get as good a result as someone trained in these skills would, but I don't think that's too bad. As Starfleet makes a lot of equipment available to its crews your are likely to get an euipment bonus to many skills, even the ones you use untrained. So I don't think your typical starfleet crew will suffer too much from untrained skill use. And as far as Tactics are concerned: Acting together as a group IMHO is more a matter of roleplaying and not of having a special skill.

Well. Untrained is not the same as trained. At least to us it is not. What we feel is that we want our Starfleet officers to be 'the elite' not just another Stormtrooper 'elite'. ;)

Yes, you are right, Starfleet officers do have resources other than just their skills and knowledge at their disposal.

But I am not saying that other races and professions should not have elite - they do. There should be elite schools (Starfleet does not posses the brightest scientists in the Star Trek universe. all the best have been civilians) too.

To sum this all up:
Do I think your academies are a cool idea? Yes, as a matter of fact I do. :cool:

Thank you. =)

And when it comes to rogues and other wild professions (ie, untrained): yes they can be elite too, but they need experience (that is advancements).

But it has been very nice to get feedback, thank you.


Vesku