Just a little question

[Koening]

I know it may sound ignoranct (and it is); but is the CODA system with level & classes or its more versatile ?

[EliasVaughn]

At first, it looks like the traditional level-based race+class system, but once you get into the intricacies of development and advancement, it reveals its true versatility.

[Doug Burke]

Okay. Allow mre to split this into two questions to better answer.

Q1) Does Coda use levels and classes?

A) Yes and no. Each character has a Profession, which can be similar to a class, but not quite the same. You get certain special abilities (but you get to choose which abilities and when you get them), and a list of Professional Skills, but the differences between two members of a Profession can be as drastic as the difference between two different Professions.

And for every 1,000 experience points you earn, you get an advancement. But advancements are not levels. You see, each facet of the character, Traits, Attributes, Skills and Reactions cost a certain number of Advancement Picks to improve. Each Advancment gives you five Advancement Picks to spend as you see fit.

This leads us rather nciely into Question 2...

Q2) Is the system more versatile?
A) A resounding yes!

[Darth Sarcastic]

Yeah...what he said.

[qerlin]

CODA avoids my big problem with d20 -- LEVELS! The idea that, hey, I'm a 3rd level whatever means I not only get stuff, but more hit points.

Advancement, when I first heard of them, sounded like levels...but they're not. I still think they should have just done the experience as picks, not in points leading up to an advancement. But that's just me.

Versatile? Yup, but I think it's unfair to say it's more versatile than ICON. ICON was a pretty solid system, save for the starship combat, which was a bit quirky. CODA ship combat blows the doors off of ICON.

[Dr Nick]

I agree, the idea that becoming more experience drastically improves your ability to absorb damage is just plain wrong. It works in the D&D fantasy theme, but for realistic (ish) roleplaying themes, its just plain wrong!

I think the advancement system is a great improvement on the levels system presented by D20.

Dr Nick

[calguard66]

I agree that I like the system better than both Icon and D20.

I haven't played around with it much yet, but the only real "mechanic" change I would have made is one pick per 200 xp. That gives a smoother advancement, and removes the resemblance to a level based system.

Other than wanting a better character-creation example, I don't have much to complain about... so far.

[Ramage]

Despite everything said, I find the Professions (read: classes) utterly unnecessary in the game.

Sure, there are the Professional Abilities, but you can still have them without having classes (based on # of picks). Just chose an appropriate "path" for picking them up, if they are deemed necessary for the game. Attribute? Just chose the one you think will be most important. Reaction? Same. Skills? Well, I am not altogether certain if you even need "Profession Skills" v. "Other Skills", but just chose a group that seem appropriate. And drop the whole notion of "gain 1000 XP, gain so many picks" -- that smacks WAY too much of "levels" to me.

Are the Professions more versatile than Levels in D&D? Not compared to Third Edition D&D. Current D&D is quite flexible in what skills you can pick up. Indeed it D&D3e it is very easy to switch from class to class, thus making disctinctions between classes all but irrelavent. In many ways I find the CODA system /less/ flexible than the ICON system (or the FASA system, for that matter) for character creation as you are forced into a given profession and may only have a single profession and a single elite profession.

Then again, heretic that I am, I never thought making Promotions and Commendations Traits was a idea move either.

Just being the Spaniard in the Works.

[Silverthorne]

Decipher's way is better than WOC. the best form of this is Gurps, but gurps is alot harder to make up a character.

D&D levels = advancements in your areas.

Decipher gaining exp gives you a chance to increase your areas of expertise

Gurps each exp point gives you the oportunity to advange your character's abilities.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by qerlin
Versatile? Yup, but I think it's unfair to say it's more versatile than ICON.

Actually, I read the question to be "Is Coda more versatile than a class/level system?"

Maybe it's just me.

[CorpBoy]

Originally posted by Ramage
Despite everything said, I find the Professions (read: classes) utterly unnecessary in the game.

Skills? Well, I am not altogether certain if you even need "Profession Skills" v. "Other Skills", but just chose a group that seem appropriate.

Personally, I like the idea of Professional Skills vs. Non-Professional Skills, mainly because I firmly believe that skills like Engineering should be easier for an Engineer to develop than, say, a merchant.

[Imagus]

I have to admit, it's a little irritating to see this one keep coming up

I know we have an official answer from Doug, but here's my pop:

D&D levels: Each time you gain a certain amount of experience (on an incremental scale), you gain a "level" in a "class" of your choice. This gives you a number of fixed benefits by class, and a few skill and other choices. Certain choices are denied you by the class you just advanced, and you can't mix and match abilities from different classes in the same level gain. Your basic combat and magical abilities will improve regardless of your class. You must select X skill points, Y feats and so on.

Coda advancements: Each time you gain a fixed amount of experience, you gain an "advancement." This gives you five "picks" from an expenditure table - certain items are more expensive if your current profession does not include them, but nothing is forbidden. You gain nothing other than cheaper items for being in your profession. Your basic combat abilities do not change unless you spend picks on them.

So, actually quite a big difference on the levels vs advancement front. Coda is much more flexible and doesn't tie you into any choices.

D&D classes: At character creation and optionally at any level increase, you choose your "class." This defines your combat and magical capabilities, and automatically excludes you from certain choices in your career at this point (a wizard cannot learn to pick pockets).

Coda professions: At character creation and optionally at any point in which you qualify, you choose a "profession." The profession defines your starting skills at character creation, cheaper access to some skills and abilities, and provides a choice of unique abilities to aid your career. Nothing prevents you learning stuff from elsewhere (including professional abilities), they're just more expensive.

Again, not much similarity to my eyes. Coda is again more flexible, and does not tie you to any limits.

And wound points have nothing to do with advancements...

I'm sorry if I come across a little snarky - it's just that we really do need an FAQ on this!

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Ramage

Are the Professions more versatile than Levels in D&D? Not compared to Third Edition D&D. Current D&D is quite flexible in what skills you can pick up.

But there are skills in D&D that are not available to a particular class. This isn't so in Coda.

Indeed it D&D3e it is very easy to switch from class to class, thus making disctinctions between classes all but irrelavent.

That's not quite accurate, IMHO. It would be impossible for a fighter to gain a level and advance as a fighter but learn a skill normally forbidden to fighters. He would have to switch classes and thereby forfeiting the benefits of fighter advancement (higher hit dice, to hit bonuses etc).

In many ways I find the CODA system /less/ flexible than the ICON system (or the FASA system, for that matter) for character creation as you are forced into a given profession and may only have a single profession and a single elite profession.

Just being the Spaniard in the Works.

Coda, Icon and Fasa all require a choice of profession that grants skills within that profession with a limited choice of others skills.

In terms of character advancement Icon was totally flexible - allowing xps to be spent on anything, but FASA was inflexible - only allowing advancement of skills used. Coda is less flexible than Icon in this respect.

I like the professions in Coda. I like the idea of being able to leaf through the book and look at the new cool abilities that I will be able to buy, and building my character so that I can reach an elite profession. Its so much more exiting than just buying a few skills here and there.

[qerlin]

Originally posted by Doug Burke


Actually, I read the question to be "Is Coda more versatile than a class/level system?"

Maybe it's just me.

Yup. It's you.

[Ramage]

Originally posted by Imagus
I have to admit, it's a little irritating to see this one keep coming up

[snip]

I'm sorry if I come across a little snarky - it's just that we really do need an FAQ on this!

The problem is that is an opinion, not a fact...

I am not in love with the D20 system, but I am familiar with it. D&D3e is NOT AD&D 2nd ed. Yes, they are similar games, but 3e is a new game. Amongst other matters it is very easy to switch from one class (profession) to another. OTOH, I have no intention of doing D20Trek. Just a matter of taste.

I sorta like the CODA system, but I find the Professions limiting. I think the CODA base system (stat range, skill ranges) is an improvement over the ICON system (I found the 1-6 bit far, FAR too limited). The Professions ARE similar to D&D Character Classes, however. Certain skills are easier to gain than others. You have levelled (every 1000 XP is not really that much different from the D&D numbered levels) advancement with specific benefits open to you as you advance. You have a choice in your benefits. Conversely, once you have chosen a Profession in the CODA system you cannot alter from this except by chosing an Elite Profession, and again you can only have one of these. This means there are a host of potential skills (Professional Abilities) closed to that character for all time.

Okay, this is only one person's opinion and it should probably remain as such. I am not putting this out as an attack and I hope I have not come off too grumpy. There is no single system in this world that I am wedded to (I've been playing rpgs since '76) and dropped out of D&D when it became AD&D, for example. I am not overly fond of GURPS or White Wolf's WoD while liking Ars Magica and Nobilis, but again that is a matter of taste. There is nothing inherently wrong with a levelled system nor anything inherently great about it. Each system has different strengths and weaknesses. I think CODA has a lot going for it, but like any gm who has been around a few years, I tend to monkey with the system to suit my own tastes.

Is CODA the same as D20? No. Are there some similarities? Yes, and protesting does not make this go away. D20 is neither the Ultimate Game nor the Ultimate Doom. It is just another game on the market. The same can be said for CODA.