Question about Damage

[WSmith]

Since i am going to be moving in a few weeks, I canceled my online order of ST PG until I get to my destination (had books get lost last time I moved and don't want to do it again.) So, bottom line, I don't have the book, hence I ask the question.

I was planning on running a makeshift LOTR CODA game from the stuff I have gathered here and the adventure game. I had one question on damage.

I am wondering how what would be considered "subdual" damage in that popular fantasy game is implimented in ST or CODA in general. I remember somewhere (I think it was a thread) that a phaser knocks you out. But what about receiving multiple strikes from an unarmed combatant. Is there a way that CODA lets you knock out characters or foes with out killing them?

Has anyone run a combat using the CODA Trek game? I am curious how it played out, and if the damage and the modifiers to checks were a nice feature.

[Lt Cmdr Matt]

I am sorry that I dnot know about the subdual damage but I do know that the game played pretty nicely. The phasers are actually lethal. I was against a romulan that had stolen a federation phaser. he had it set to vaporize a hum. I had mine set to stun. I was able to dodge his phaser attack and I knocked him out with a stun. In another case though I was unable to dodge and was vaporized. In starfleet they all know it is a dangerous job and my character figured that out. lol I hope this helped

[Silverthorne]

I have a similar question, what is the damage of a punch...

[Doug Burke]

Unfortunately, the rules as written don't differentiate between armed and unarmed combat damage. Sorry.

As for the damage of a punch, it is 1d3+ your Strength modifier. If you roll a Complete success (5-9 over the Target Number), damge is increased by +2. An Extraordinary Success (10+ over TN) gives a +4 to damage. This is explained on page 250 of the PG.

[C5]

So is there a way to knock somebody out in unarmed combat ?
I know an edge allows to Stun people with the blunt edge of a weapon, but I don't remember seeing something similar for unarmed combat (apart for the Nerve Pinch).
I hope that Vulcans are not the only species able to end a fistfight without killing their opponent

Mind, I seem to discover new rules everyday, so it may well be something I missed

Woohoo!! 600th post!!

[Doug Burke]

There is no provision made in the rules to differentiate between unarmed and armed damage. However, it would be safe to assume that unarmed combat would render the target unconscious instead of killing him.

[C5]

Thanks for the answer, Doug.

So, basically, this means that, although there's nothing about it in the rules, we can consider unarmed combat damage as doing a different type of damage than armed combat, right (since it doesn't kill) ?

Guess I'll use the ICON rules for combat damage as a house rule for that, then.

On a similar subject, are some precisions about different skills of Unarmed Combat planned to appear in books to come (with different maneuvers for each of them) ? Or maybe just some guidelines on how to create a combat maneuver ?

[Profit]

It seems obvious to me that a house rule system for the handling of damage needs to be invented- the way CODA handles it is completely ludicrous.

Dividing it into "Kill damage" and "Stun damage" seems by far the best option. The damage ratings need to be reworked too- point blank from a shotgun and that fancy uniform of your wont save you.

[ImperialOne]

Perhaps the Vitality/Wound Points thing is more to your liking?

I think that "house-system" modelling for damage in unarmed combat as stunned damage is not right... trust me, the damage one takes from a punch is quite real.... and people do die from being pummeled (as I can attest to trying to treat them in the Emergency Room).

But, it is your game... and one can do anything they want, especially if the style fits the Narrator and players.

Charles

[C5]

Actually, the double damage scale was a perfectly official rule in ICON... and, while I agree that damages from unarmed combat can very well be lethal, I just regret that, in the official CODA rules, there seems to be absolutely nothing that would allow a character to knock out someone with a swing (unless again I missed something).
So maybe this was an intent of the designers for making the game more real, but personally, I prefer having unarmed combat being the "soft" option, from wich you only go away with some bruises, with phasers and others weapons being the serious things where you really risk your life (though I agree that some weapons like the shotgun seem a bit underpowered to me, but on the other hand ICON's weapons were faaaar too lethal for a common human).
I never hesitate to design house rules for my games, I'm just a bit surprised that CODA seems unable to account most Kirk fights (I mean, there's no rules about the resistance of a character's shirt ). Maybe some particular combat action allowing to Stun an opponent ?

[Profit]

Vitality? Wound points? Never heard of it.

You think a character can die from punches in ST? Hardly.

But, if that's your inkling, look at WWs system for WoD- when you've taken enough "non-lethal" damage, it becomes quite lethal. So it is quite possible to pummel someone to death.

The point is that you should be able to knock people out- without the "blunt attack" skill (now that's silly) and without a phaser set to stun.

And it should take lesser time to recover from a punch than, say, a Bath-let slice.

(Not that Bath-lets seems so dangerous... just look at the episode where Dax goes with her Klingon buddies to kill "the Albino"- no blood at all!)

[Polanski]

Yes I agree, I wish there was a bit more on unarmed combat in the basic rules, but there is not and thats the reality.

Anyway I was working with some examples of edges that support better unarmed combat (please see my Weapon Mastery post if you are interested)

I am thinking about some house rules, say a complete/extraordinary success results in the enemy being forced to make some sort of test, maybe a stamina test or something like that to see if they are still standing, and every wound level caused by the unarmed attack effects the test as well.

Any ideas anyone?

Regards

[C5]

Well for one thing I'm very tempted to import some ICON rules into CODA combat rules (like for instance, being thrown to the ground when reaching the Wounded wound level and so on), especially for the difference between Unarmed and Armed combat damage.
The only thing that pulls me back a little is that I wonder if this wouldn't go against some agenda of the designers of the game (like making it faster, less lethal, or something else apparent only after many hours of game testing and not a after fast browsing of the rules ).

However, I think that adding a special combat manoeuver allowing to do stun damage in Unarmed Combat would not unbalance the game too much (the only thing to avoid would be making this manoeuver more or as much effective than the Nerve Pinch, of course). That, or requesting Stamina tests (at the TN indicated on the Natural Healing table, for instance) whenever a character loses a Wound Level in Unarmed Combat (or even every type of Combat) to see whether he can remain conscious. If not, he loses consciousness for some rounds/minutes/hours/days (depending on the wound level) or until successful First Aid/Medicine tests are made on him.
Comments, suggestions ?

[Calcoran]

I like both ideas (complete/extraordinary success from the attacker, or reaching a wound level for the defender) ... but you also need to account for the fact that healing from unarmed combat wounds should be a bit easier than from phaser ot bar'leth ones.

[CorpBoy]

Originally posted by Profit
You think a character can die from punches in ST? Hardly.

Why not? Real world situation: a man who worked for a local grocery store got mad because some teenagers were making fun of him. He followed the teens to a nearby fast-food joint and punched the wrong teen once (to the head). Just once. That teen died later from unforseen complications arising from that one punch. Incidentally, the man was found and charged with murder.

So yeah, I think you can die from taking a punch. Now, in the medically advanced 24th century, it probably wouldn't happen. Unless, of course, medical attention was unavailable after you decided to brawl with those three nasty Nausicans.