Ooops...

[Don Mappin]

Apologies to SIR SIG, as I accidently deleted his "Escape Pod" thread. I had made a post, went back to delete the post to start over, and instead (not paying attention), deleted the thread!

Sorry SIR SIG!

Anyway, here was my reply:
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I'm a little fuzzy here...you're making them roll to see if they can climb into an escape pod? What's so hard about that?
What if they fail? Do the PCs die?

Narrator: "Okay, there's a warp core breech and the whole ship is going to be destroyed in 30 seconds!"
Captain: "Sound Abandon Ship! Everyone to escape pods!"
Narrator: "Okay, Reaction checks all-around!"
Players: "Yea, I made it!" "Damn, I failed!"
Narrator: "Sadly, Bob, your character bumbles around in confusion, forgetting his years of Starfleet training, and dies in a glorious fireball! Please generate a new character for the next ship!"



Do you make them check to see if their helmets are on when they EVA too?


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[qerlin]

Dude! Don't tell me you guys are fallible!

[SIR SIG]

Well the roll is to see if they can get there in time.

In starship combat, if the PC's ship is destroyed, thats when I give them the roll to see if they survive.

Well naturally and PC worth his weight in Latinum will have a good reaction/athletics skill.

And yes if the ship does go up completly then they do die. I don't pull many punches and when I do, people still get an arm or leg phasered off or similar.

Honestly none of PC's have had to do any EVA so I haven't made them roll for that YET...


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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator

[First of Two]

Does someone with a really high reaction get a chance to save someone who fails their roll, if they're standing close by?

*Lieutenant Burke notices Ensign Jones fumbling with the door, and takes a split second to give him a swift kick in the bottom, propelling him into the hatch and safety, before climbing in herself* ??

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"Guchk *Cough* muu ougtgha hrrgh!" -- Cmdr. An-tule Lemayan, USS Boadicea
"I'd have to say that's the worst case of smuush I've ever seen." -- Dr. Sonachai Smith, CMO, USS Boadicea

[Dan Gurden]

Oddly enough, one of the very things being discussed on the previous thread... <G>

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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by SIR SIG:
In starship combat, if the PC's ship is destroyed, thats when I give them the roll to see if they survive.

So, let me get this straight. The player who's playing the Doctor, is sitting in sickbay, while the PC Captain and Flight Control officer destroy the ship, yet the Doctor has to roll to see if his character survives by something that happened through no fault of his own?

Well naturally and PC worth his weight in Latinum will have a good reaction/athletics skill.

Naturally? I must have missed that bit in the Core Rule Book: "Any PC worth their weight will have a good Reaction and/or Athletics skill."

I've personally created up plenty of Counselors and other characters with absolutely horrific Coordination scores.

In the game that I play, the average character has a Coordation + Reaction of 3, at best. Taking the Doctor example above, where do you think he spent his points: Coordination or Intellect?

Also, your tone and the use of the word "naturally" strongly implies that you expect the player's to suceed. If that's true, why bother to roll?

And yes if the ship does go up completly then they do die. I don't pull many punches and when I do, people still get an arm or leg phasered off or similar.

While I also believe that accountablility, mortality, and the threat of failure are necessary for dramatic tension, quite frankly if I indescrimately killed off my players on a die roll because they couldn't find their way to an escape pod, I know for a fact that one player would outright storm out of the room and never play again and a second would probably never want to play Star Trek again.

Holding players accountable for actions that they didn't take part in, doesn't seem reasonable (to me). Failures, of even one die roll, shouldn't lead to the impending death of a character (in my opinion).

I think this is a matter of totally different styles of Narrating. I also don't pull any punches, but I don't indescrimately kill off players becuase they failed a "die" roll. The death of my characters serves the story or is done in a dramatic manner (only PC death was a self-initiated self-sacrifice to take a disruptor shot for another PC).

In the same manner, I think if you ask any of my players, they know that the threat of death is always looming if they do something stupid or take unnecessary risks -- never for failing a die roll.

Your milage will vary (heavily).

Don


[This message has been edited by Don (edited 01-12-2001).]

[calguard66]

Originally posted by Don:
While I also believe that accountablility, mortality, and the threat of failure are necessary for dramatic tension, quite frankly if I indescrimately killed off my players on a die roll because they couldn't find their way to an escape pod, I know for a fact that one player would outright storm out of the room and never play again and a second would probably never want to play Star Trek again.

Holding players accountable for actions that they didn't take part in, doesn't seem reasonable (to me). Failures, of even one die roll, shouldn't lead to the impending death of a character (in my opinion).

I think this is a matter of totally different styles of Narrating. I also don't pull any punches, but I don't indescrimately kill off players becuase they failed a "die" roll. The death of my characters serves the story or is done in a dramatic manner (only PC death was a self-initiated self-sacrifice to take a disruptor shot for another PC).

In the same manner, I think if you ask any of my players, they know that the threat of death is always looming if they do something stupid or take unnecessary risks -- never for failing a die roll.

Your milage will vary (heavily).

Don


[This message has been edited by Don (edited 01-12-2001).]

All you say is true... but life is hard. Remember the saucer separation/ evacuation in Generations? Everybody running around: spouses, children, pets... none of whom had anything to do with what was happening on the bridge. Remember the death of Tasha Yar? Everybody I know hates that episode because they didn't make it a heroic, meaningful death. They just "arbitrarily" killed off a main cast member with a flick of the pen. IMHO, that was the whole point. Human life is frail... esp when confronted with phasers, antimatter explosions, and Borg nanites.

When MY ship gets into that sort of catastrophic trouble, I play it for all it's worth... can the Doctor and his staff get all the patients to escape pods in time? Time is running out... does he go back for that last patient, the one who will probably die anyway?

Can the Engineer and his crew hold the ship together long enough for everyone else to escape, while trying to save a comrade trapped under a falling beam? They can save their comrade, but the ship will explode more quickly... or they can hold the ship together, but won't be able to save the trapped crewman when it does go...

Both of the above happened in my campaign:

When the USS Vigilant was destryed in battle with the Dominion, the doctor entered the lifepod even though there were still patients who needed to be evacuated. The player played in character... the Doc was a mousy, cowardly sort. The Doc was exhonorated by a Board of Inquiry... but comitted suicide out of guilt.

When the USS Fearless faced the Borg in Typhon Sector, the Chief Engineer and his staff stayed at their posts after the abandon ship order to try and give everyone time to get off the ship. He ordered the engineering staff to ignore the trapped crewman... then, after the ship couldn't hold on anymore, he ordered his crew to the lifepods... remaining behind himself to try and free the trapped crewman. He died in the explosion.

The death of a starship is an incredible opportunity. I agree that it shouldn't be handled with a mere die roll... but neither should the characters automaticly survive.

Just as in real life you find out what a person is made of in the face of death. Don't roll-play it, ROLE-play it.


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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

[This message has been edited by calguard66 (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Dan Gurden]

Thank you Calguard, inspirational to the point of making me want to try that at some time...

Now I grin evilly as some of my players read these boards and we are about to go into combat!

Bwahahahahahahaha!

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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"

[SIR SIG]

Originally posted by Don:
While I also believe that accountablility, mortality, and the threat of failure are necessary for dramatic tension, quite frankly if I indescrimately killed off my players on a die roll because they couldn't find their way to an escape pod, I know for a fact that one player would outright storm out of the room and never play again and a second would probably never want to play Star Trek again.

* Force of habit with my characters/PCs. They expect that the shit can hit the fan at any moment and won't walk out if they lose a character. Yes I do use dice rolls to decide on some outcomes but simply that. If they fail then its the dramatic line "your character does this but falls behind, the ship is shaking itself apart, you have precious little time...
So while failing will generally lead to death in this case, the PCs do have a chance (slim) but a chance to survive.

Holding players accountable for actions that they didn't take part in, doesn't seem reasonable (to me). Failures, of even one die roll, shouldn't lead to the impending death of a character (in my opinion).

I think this is a matter of totally different styles of Narrating. I also don't pull any punches, but I don't indescrimately kill off players becuase they failed a "die" roll. The death of my characters serves the story or is done in a dramatic manner (only PC death was a self-initiated self-sacrifice to take a disruptor shot for another PC).

In the same manner, I think if you ask any of my players, they know that the threat of death is always looming if they do something stupid or take unnecessary risks -- never for failing a die roll.

Your milage will vary (heavily).

Don


[This message has been edited by Don (edited 01-12-2001).]

* So hopefully that explains my side. If I need a quick decision then I will roll dice for a result and then work with it for dramatic on the fly story telling.

* To put it simply, its one of my RPG styles and the PCs accept it. Sure the Cpt may die by going down with the ship (ie does quite get to the pod) but then theres always a wet behind the ears ensign; straight out of the academy awaiting the adventure.

* PC characters have a high turnover rate in my games (especially one fellow).

* I don't pull punches but if they survive then the PC grows with the experience!

* Oh and incidently the remark about naturally: 'Twas a meaning about high level characters with well assigned xp.

* 'Your mileage WILL vary, but its the same car all the time, just another driver'

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SIR SIG a Aussie TREK Narrator

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by calguard66:
All you say is true... but life is hard.

Never said it wasn't...

I agree that it shouldn't be handled with a mere die roll... but neither should the characters automaticly survive.

Sorry if I implied it, but the players most certainly do not have script immunity in my games. There is no "automatic survival." (Humm, thought I made that pretty clear.)

Don't roll-play it, ROLE-play it.

This was, in essence, the message of my original post. I couldn't agree more.


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Don
trekrpg@trekrpg.net

[calguard66]

Don:

I was actually trying to reply to two postings at once... sorry if I stepped on you.

My point for your posting was that with 1000 people on a starship, only a handful really matter in combat. Having crew affected by things they have no control over seems quite natural...

I played one "Lower Decks" series where the PC's were a "standing mission team". They only got on the bridge to be chewed on by the Captain... and that only twice. Usually they were chewed on by the XO in a briefing room. )

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain