23rd Century Starfleet

[Sea Tyger]

I'm resurrecting this thread to fix some mistakes. The first is to restore the original dimensions of the Nelson-class scout, as presented in the FASA Starfleet SRM (already done...see page 1 of this thread). This changed the ship's classification to Light Cruiser (with a Scout mission profile).

Next, I will present my visions of the Loknar and Larson, as well as the 2245 version of the Constitution. (I apologize to the person I once had a heated discussion with over that subject...he was correct in that the pre-refit Constitution, as presented in the NG, was the 2257 version of the ship, and not the original 2245 vessel.)

Lastly, I will restore the Remora-class escort to her original dimensions, which will change her classification to heavy escort.

[Sea Tyger]

Loknar-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Loknar-class Heavy Frigate
Year Launched: 2245 {2253} {{2269}}

Hull Data
Structure: 40 {{35}}
Size/Decks: 6/12 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 290/127/56 meters
Complement: 120

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 60
Shuttlebay: 1 saucer aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 3 (D)
Life Support: Class 3 (D)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IIIa (.6c) (C)
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x3/B) {{Type VII (x3/C)}}
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0 {{4/4/4/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: None {Type I (x2/B)} {{Type II (x2/C)}}
Penetration: n/a {3/3/3/3/3} {{4/4/4/4/4}}
Deflector Shield: Cass 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +1H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (propulsion)

The Loknar-class frigate was the third of four major classes of vessels produced during the Federation expansion period of the mid-2240s, thanks to Andorian arguments that the new Federation frontier needed warships in case of another disastrous first contact (like the Romulans and Klingons in decades and centuries past). As such, the Loknar is the first popular "Andorian" design, and its lengthy service is a tribute to the quality of Andorian engineering.

The frigate proved its value during the Axanar rebellion, although Starfleet realized the need to add photon torpedoes to the ship (which it did in a 2253 refit). One ship, the former USS Morgan City (NCC-2704), was captured by Klingon Admiral Kamato in 2255 and later used in an failed attempted coup of the chancellorship. Kamato later used the frigate, now called the IKSV Staav'eMara, to prey on shipping within the Triangle sector. The ship was last seen in 2278, but intelligence reports indicate it is still in active Klingon service.

The Loknar received a second refit in 2269, upgrading phasers, torpedoes and warp drive. Despite being superceded by the Chandley-class, dozens of Loknars remain in service as late as 2293, but the class expects to be phased out by 2310.

[Sea Tyger]

Larson-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Larson-class Destroyer
Year Launched: 2245 {2259} {{2270}}

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/20 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 269/134/62 meters
Complement: 195

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 60
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV, 1 AV
Separation System: No
Sensor System: Class 2 (+2/C)
Operations System: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.6c) (D) {{Type V (.85c) (D)}}
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x2/B) {{Type VI (x2/B)}}
Penetration: 3/2/2/0/0 {{4/3/3/0/0}}
Photon Torpedoes: Type I (x2/B) {{Type II (x2/B)}}
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/3 {{4/4/4/4/4}}
Deflector Shield: Class 2 (B) {Class 2a (B)}
Protection/Threshold: 12/2 {13/3}

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +1C +2H +2T
Traits: Enhanced System (impulse systems) (+.1c, reflected above)

The Larson-class destroyer was part of the Federation's expansion of the 2240s. An efficient patrol vessel that carried a surprisingly capable science department, the Larson often operated independently in peacetime, performing many of the same functions as the Constitution and Anton-class cruisers.

The class saw heavy action in the Axanar Rebellion, performing well above expectations. However, Starfleet found flaws within the destroyer's shield grid, and corrected the problem with a 2259 refit that upgraded to Class 2a shields.

The Larson was further modernized in 2270, with upgrades to weapons and impulse systems, making it one of the fastest ships in the fleet at sublight. But the advent of the faster and more modern Baker and Wilkerson-class destroyers in the early-to-mid 70s prompted Starfleet to phase the Larson out by 2283.

[Sea Tyger]

Constitution-class Specifications

Production Data
Origin: United Federation of Planets
Class and Type: Constitution-class Heavy Cruiser
Year Launched: 2245

Hull Data
Structure: 40
Size/Decks: 6/23 decks
Length/Beam/Height: 289/130/73 meters
Complement: 203

Operational Data
Transporters: 3 standard, 3 emergency, 3 cargo
Cargo Units: 70
Shuttlebay: 1 aft
Shuttlecraft: 6 size worth
Tractor Beams: 1FV
Separation System: Yes (emergency only)
Sensor System: Class 3 (+3/D)
Operations System: Class 4 (E)
Life Support: Class 4 (E)

Propulsion Data
Impulse System: Type IV (.5c) (D)
Warp System: Type V (wf 5/6/7) (C)

Tactical Data
Phaser Banks: Type IV (x3/B)
Penetration: 4/3/3/0/0
Photon Torpedoes: Type I (B)
Penetration: 3/3/3/3/0
Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
Protection/Threshold: 13/3

Miscellaneous Data
Maneuvering: +2C +0H +2T
Traits: Hardened System (life support)

These statistics represent the Constitution-class heavy cruiser as of her original 2245 launch. For class description and 2257 and 2273 refit statistics, refer to p. 146 of the Narrator's Guide.

The Constitution was originally designed with heavy automation, allowing for a much smaller crew than a cruiser of its size would normally require. Automation system failures under stress during the Axanar Rebellion forced Starfleet to rethink certain aspects of the ship's design, resulting in the 2257 refit.

[Sea Tyger]

The Remora (page 1 of this thread) is updated.

[SIR SIG]

This may just be my interpretation but wasn't the Destoryer originally designed to hunt down and destroy submarines?

If that still sticks, then how can that classification still be active in ST? Unless its a specific hunt and destroy vessel which SF wouldn't use due to its ethical and moral nature anyways.

I would say for SF:

Small / Support vessels: Shuttles, Freighters etc.
Frigates: Patrol ships and 'escorts'
Cruisers: General ship of the line / exploration

In this way, Destroyers and Battleships don't fit into SF ethos. Of course you have your specialised versions of these classes. eg.

Exploartory Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Heavy Escort (Frigate)

etc.

Anyways just me and my ramblings

[Sea Tyger]

Websters calls a destroyer "a small fast warship used esp. to support larger vessels and usu. armed with 5-inch guns, depth charges, torpedoes, and often guided missiles."

Also, from the navy website:

The destroyer evolved from the need of navies to counter a new ship which made a devastating debut in the Chilean Civil War of 1891 and in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894. This was the swift, small torpedo boat that could dash in close to the larger ships, loose their torpedoes and dash away. The world's navies recognized the need for a counter weapon and so the torpedo boat destroyer — later just "destroyer" — was born.

Destroyers were designed in response to the torpedo boat, and not the submarine. Only when submarines became a major threat to surface vessels did the destroyer's (and other surface combatants) mission evolve to include that threat. IMO, destroyers in Trek are designed to protect larger capital ships (cruisers, explorers, etc.) from smaller harassing vessels (like escorts, corvettes, cutters and fighters), and are very relevant.

I've already decided that Starfleet used destroyer throughout the 23rd Century, but eventually phased them out after the Tomed Incident in 2311, when Starfleet moved away from a more militaristic force.

[SIR SIG]

Ah

I knew it was something to do with small vessels that fired torpedoes

Still in modern terms can you really find a difference between a Destroyer and Frigate?

[Eric R.]

Actually the question is more if there is a defference between Cruisers and Destroyers instead of Destroyers and Frigates. Frigates have evolved into the main ASW ships in most navies.

A typical Oliver Hazard Perry Figate in the USN has dimensions of 135.6m in length a beam of 13.7m and a draught of 7.5m. A Kidd Class destroyer is 171.1m in length a beam of 16.9m and a draught of 9m. A Ticonderoga class Cruiser (Agis) is 171.7m in length a beam of 17m and a draught of 9.4m. As you can see the destroyer and crusier is virtually the same size as one another (not to mention roughly equal to any one of the nine Battleships in Peral Harbor on Dec 7 1941.)

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by SIR SIG
Still in modern terms can you really find a difference between a Destroyer and Frigate?

Modern terms? As in the U.S. Navy in 2002, or in Star Trek terms? I'll answer the latter question first, in my own view (which differs a little from Decipher's official descriptions).

Frigate: For me, a frigate in the 23rd/24th centuries is the largest "warship" that Starfleet produces. These vessels, while still carrying a respectable scientific/exporatory capability (even combat-oriented cruisers would have a greater exploratory capability), are built primarily to defend the Federation from its enemies. Primarily independent long-range patrol vessels, frigates routinely operate in a specific region of space, where they can quickly reach trouble spots.

Destroyer: The early years of the Federation saw the sharp decline of military vessels as Starfleet focused on exploration. As such, destroyers were phased out completely, and only a few frigates remained to patrol along the Neutral Zone. When unremitting hostilities began with the Klingons in the early 2220s, the Federation found the need for a greater military presence, and reinstated the destroyer as a type.

23rd Century destroyers were built to counter threats from Klingon escorts, corvettes, cutters and other small harassing vessels. Operating in squads of three or four vessels, destroyers supplemented frigate patrols along the Klingon and Romulan borders. Specialize primarily in "skirmishing" -- a tactic of close-quarters combat -- destroyers were often heavily armored and favored phasers over torpedoes.

Most of Starfleet's destroyers were retired in the decade following the 2293 Khitomer Accords, and the destroyer type as a whole was discontinued by 2320, following Tomed Incident and the abandonment of Romulan interest in the Alpha Quadrant. The role of the escort has expanded to fill the destroyer's gap in the 24th Century.

Cruiser: For me, the role of the 23rd Century cruiser was that of the central capital ship (as the battleship was in the early 20th Century and the carrier was in the late 20th Century) of Starfleet, although it's primary mission was far from military. The cruiser is both scientist and soldier to Starfleet, capable of exploring the deepest reaches of the frontier, with little or no support from HQ, and defending itself from the enemies it may find there. The largest and most versatile ships Starfleet has to offer, some heavy cruisers carry more firepower than many frigates while still able to fully act as surveyor, researcher and diplomat. That's why cruisers were the flagships of Starfleet.

With the advent of the explorer type in the 24th Century, the cruiser took on a secondary exploration role, while still remaining a highly versatile type. More cruisers took on specialized roles...from diplomatic escorts to research vessels to explorers to warships. The cruiser retains this versatile role in the aftermath of the Dominion War, and will remain the "workhorse" type of the fleet for decades to come.

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Eric R.
A typical Oliver Hazard Perry Figate in the USN has dimensions of 135.6m in length a beam of 13.7m and a draught of 7.5m. A Kidd Class destroyer is 171.1m in length a beam of 16.9m and a draught of 9m. A Ticonderoga class Cruiser (Agis) is 171.7m in length a beam of 17m and a draught of 9.4m. As you can see the destroyer and crusier is virtually the same size as one another (not to mention roughly equal to any one of the nine Battleships in Peral Harbor on Dec 7 1941.)

First off, the Kidd-class destroyer is not representative of modern U.S. Navy destroyers. The Kidd is one of four destroyers that were originally built for the Iranians in the late 70s, but were never delivered for obvious reasons (the hostage situation in 1979-80). The Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer is the Navy's most modern destroyer, and arguably the most powerful warship ever put to sea.

DD's (like the Spruance) are primarily anti-submarine warfare ships, while DDGs (like the Burke) are multi-mission capable (anti-air, anti-surface and anti-submarine). This has made the designation between destroyer and cruiser a little muddy lately, as guided-missile cruisers (CGs) have the same mission. However, CGs (like the Ticonderoga-class) often operate independently or as surface action group flagships, where destroyers almost always operate within the battlegroup. That's where the distinction really lies, nowadays.

[Fred]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sea Tyger
[B]Remora-class Specifications

Hey, Davy,
Great work! The Remora was the ship our GM assigned to our group on my first Star Trek game ever, several years ago. I remember complaining about it (what?! no torpedoes?!), but it eventually grew on me. I eben used it later on a Next Generation game I ran with GURPS rules.
I tried to convert it before using Spacedock, but it was too much of a hassle.
One question: shouldn't it be faster, warpwise? I remember it was one of teh fastest ships in the SRM.
Tchau!

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Fred
One question: shouldn't it be faster, warpwise? I remember it was one of teh fastest ships in the SRM.
Tchau!

It was difficult to convert wf's directly from FASA to Coda, since the FASA numbers are generally higher. As such, the Type V warp system is one of the faster units (third fastest max sustainable speed for TOS ships). Remember that only one Coda ward system has a cruising speed as high as wf7 (which seemed to be normal for FASA ships).

The other consideration I had was space. Taking a page from the Constitution write up, I always try to leave 5-10 extra space for Movie-era ships when I'm done with them. As such, I felt that, as a support ship (even though it is a large escort), I could justify a smaller warp drive (especially since she was originally launched in 2262).

[AndorMan]

Does anyone have ICON stats for some of these? I could really use a TOS Movie Era Loknar.

AndorMan
Ol'Blue Skin

[Sea Tyger]

I don't know if anyone did Icon stats for the FASA ships. Icon/Spacedock stats for FASA ships may be on the main TrekRPG website.

I did all of my FASA conversions directly to Coda.