New bunch of maneuvers

[KillerWhale]

Hi all,

I designed quite a bunch of new maneuvers to use with the ship combat system. Most of them are taken from my personal interpretation of the fights seen on screen, and from discussion with my players. I also adapted some ideas I saw here and there on the board.

Any feedback, as always, is greatly appreciated

Tier One Maneuvers

Reacquire Target (Tactical)
The ship abandons its primary target and tries to acquire another one in the vicinity.
PREREQUISITES: Old and new primary targets must be in the same range.
DURATION: Instant.
TN: 15.
EFFECT: When the maneuver is successful, the ship can give up its previous primary target and choose another one in the same range.
If the roll is failed, the ship keeps the same primary target but loses Lock On if it has been activated.

Tier Two Maneuvers

Concentrate fire (Tactical)
The ship fires several weapons at once in a concentrated volley in an attempt to increase the damage, but at the sacrifice of pinpoint accuracy.
PREREQUISITES: Cannot be used after Evasive Attack (C), Fast Attack (C), or Z-Axis (H)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target’s protection
EFFECT: When applying this maneuver, choose one weapon system, such as phasers, disruptors of photon torpedoes. For each missile launcher or beam bank available of the given weapon, the tactical officer can choose to apply a –3 malus to the skill test made to attack, for a bonus of +1 to the weapon’s penetration.

Evasion (Helm)
The ship performs a series of sharp turns to shake off attackers.
PREREQUISITES: Cannot be used after any Tier III maneuver
DURATION: Instant
TN: 15+3 per attacker beyond the first.
EFFECT: For each attackers the ship wants to shake off beyond the first, the helmsman gets a +3 TN to his System Ops (Helm) skill test.
The ships dodged lose Lock On. Those that didn’t have Lock On add +3 to the TN of their tactical skill tests to attack the ship for the next round. The acting ship cannot use any Tactical maneuver just after Evasion.

Example: used often in Voy: "Evasive maneuvers, M. Paris!"

Lock On System (Tactical)
The tactical officer locks weapons onto an opposing ship system (weapons, life support...) in the hopes of greatly damaging it during its next attack. If the attack penetrates the shields, damage is applied directly to the said system.
PREREQUISITES: Lock On (T)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target's protection+10
EFFECT: For the next tactical maneuver performed by the acting ship against the primary target, in the same round as Lock On System, the damage is applied directly to the targeted system (instead of general structural damage). For every 3 points of damage suffered by the vessel, the system targeted takes 1 point of damage.
If the acting ship does not perform a tactical maneuver in the same round after Lock On System, the effects are lost.


Example: used in ST Generations during the fight against the Duras sisters: "Target their warp core, M. Worf". Then Worf hurls every weapon he has.

Tier Three Maneuvers

Combine Fire (Command)
Several starships combine their fire on their primary target, under the lead of the acting ship, in an attempt to penetrate the shields more efficiently.
PREREQUISITES: Lock On (T)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target’s protection + 3/ship combining fire
EFFECT: The TN of this maneuver is the target’s protection +3 for each ship the commanding officer wants to rally. If successful, these ships as well as the acting ship get an additional tactical maneuver to attack the primary target.
Sum the damage of the acting ship’s supplementary tactical maneuver, and half the damage made by the additional ships, and apply this overall penetration to the target.

Scorpion Evasion (Command)
The acting ship tries to draw fire from its Primary Target against another opponent, by flying towards it and performing a sharp turn at the last moment.
PREREQUISITES: Match speed (H); Primary Target and other opponent in the same range
DURATION: Until next round
TN: 20
EFFECT: The acting ship loses 5 Protection against the Primary Target for next round. Half of the damage of Tactical maneuvers made by the Primary Target during the next round is applied to the acting ship, and the other half is applied to the other opponent used for Scorpion Evasion.
In case of an Extraordinary Success, all damage is applied to the opponent and none to the acting ship.

Yet another on screen example: in ST First Contact against the cube.
Picard: "Target this system."
All ships perform Lock On System
Data: "The fleet reports ready".
Picard: "Fire."
Picard performs Combine Fire. All ships either Fire, or use Multiweapon

Of course, to see if this is realistic vs. Picard's stats, we'd need to have the Borg Cube stats.

Hope you like it

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by KillerWhale
Any feedback, as always, is greatly appreciated

Tier One Maneuvers

Reacquire Target (Tactical)

I actually don't see a need for this one. You can already do the same thing with Disengage automatically, without a skill test. If your point is simply to create another way to change targets without suffering a -5 to your protection until your next helm maneuver, you may want to change this to a Tier Two maneuver.

TN: 15.

This, mainly, is why. All the existing Tier One maneuvers have a TN of 10 or Target's Protection.

Tier Three Maneuvers

Combine Fire (Command)

I'm not sure that adding half the penitration value from each additional ship is quite what you want to be handing out. Sure, in your example the target is a Borg cube which requires a hell of a large punch, but consider the repricussions with less powerful targets... I would suggest that each additional ship add +1 to the penetration value (as with combined skill tests), possibly +2 with an extraordinary success. Another way to limit it would be to add the prerequisite that the ship issuing this command must have the Flagship trait.

All in all, though, I like the looks of them...

-Chris Landmark

[KillerWhale]

Hi Chris,

Thanks very much for your remarks.

You're completely right about Reacquire Target. What I wanted is an easier way to switch targets. In fact, I had in mind the case when a capital ship is harassed by smaller ones, and tries to damage all so as to scare them off.

There's the new version:

Reacquire Target (Tactical)
The ship abandons its primary target and tries to acquire another one in the vicinity, leaving the ship vulnerable to attacks.
PREREQUISITES: Old and new primary targets must be in the same range
DURATION: Instant
TN: 10
EFFECT: When the maneuver is successful, the ship can give up its previous primary target and choose another one in the same range.
If the roll is failed, the ship keeps the same primary target but loses Lock On if it has been activated.
In any case, the ship suffers -5 to Protection until next round.

I let TN 10, leaving it in Tier I (I don't think switching targets should be that difficult, finally). That makes it a "downgraded" version of Disengage (which is TN 15 against a single opponent).

Same about Combine fire: I'm integrating your remarks with two little tweaks: I made the TN Protection +2 /ship (instead of +3), making it reasonably easy for Picard to coordinate the whole fleet. I also ruled that the ships participating lose one maneuver for the next round.

I like the flaghsip idea, but I also had in mind Kang's bird of prey in ST6, when the Enterprise and the Excelsior gang up on it (well, they are both flagships, true, but...)

That makes:

Combine Fire (Command)
Several starships combine their fire on their primary target, under the lead of the acting ship, in an attempt to penetrate the shields more efficiently.
PREREQUISITES: Lock On (T)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target’s protection + 2/ship combining fire
EFFECT: The TN of this maneuver is the target’s protection +2 for each ship the commanding officer wants to rally. If successful, these ships add +1 to the acting ship's weapon penetration (+2 in case of an extraordinary success) for the next tactical maneuver the ship makes, which must take place in the same round as Combine Fire.
All ships participating (except the acting ship) lose one maneuver for the next round.

Thanks for your very useful advice. I'm glad you found them interesting

[Theko]

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Theko

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by KillerWhale
There's the new version:

Reacquire Target (Tactical)

EFFECT: When the maneuver is successful, the ship can give up its previous primary target and choose another one in the same range.
If the roll is failed, the ship keeps the same primary target but loses Lock On if it has been activated.
In any case, the ship suffers -5 to Protection until next round.

OK, now you've made a completely useless maneuver. Read the description of Disengage again, carefully. "If changing primary targets, no skill test is necessary and the TN does not apply." So now you're making people roll dice for exactly the same effect they get with another maneuver without rolling dice. I'd personally call it a tier 2 maneuver, TN 15, with no penalty to protection, so that the effect is different than Disengage and someone might actually want to roll the dice for it.

I like the flaghsip idea, but I also had in mind Kang's bird of prey in ST6, when the Enterprise and the Excelsior gang up on it (well, they are both flagships, true, but...)

That makes:

Combine Fire (Command)

I'm not sure that was really an example of Combine Fire so much as it was two very large and powerfully armed ships pulverizing a comparatively weak craft with its shields down (it was cloaked at the time, as you recall).

Actually, you've deviated a lot farther from your original maneuver than I thought was necessary. I would go with:

Combine Fire (Command)
Several starships combine their fire on their primary target, under the lead of the acting ship, in an attempt to penetrate the shields more efficiently.
PREREQUISITES: Lock On (T)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target’s protection + 3/ship combining fire
EFFECT: The TN of this maneuver is the target’s protection +3 for each ship the commanding officer wants to rally. If successful, these ships as well as the acting ship get an additional tactical maneuver (which must be the same for all ships) to attack the primary target.
The acting ship gains +1 to its weapon penetration for each ship that successfully executes their tactical maneuver (+2 in case of ships achieving an extraordinary success) when damage is applied to the target ship(s).

-Chris Landmark

[KillerWhale]

Thanks a lot Chris for your input

OK, now you've made a completely useless maneuver.

Whoops, that's entirely true. Now I feel ashamed...

Maybe there's no need for this maneuver. What I had in mind was exactly the free effects of Disengage. No point here...

Maybe the maneuver would be interesting if it gave a free maneuver, or no penalty as you suggest. I'll take the time to think about it and come up with something more finalized.

Combine Fire (Command)

This is a good take, and your remark on the bird of prey is true as well.

What I'm not really comfortable with is the "additional tactical maneuver which must be the same for all ships" part. In my initial draft, I wanted to allow the use of more sophisticated tactical maneuvers like Multiweapon for rallied ships. With the " The acting ship gains +1 to its weapon penetration for each ship that successfully executes their tactical maneuver (+2 in case of ships achieving an extraordinary success)" part, the ships have no interest in attempting to perform a complicated maneuver; they just have to go with Fire, and they are more likely to achieve extraordinary successes.

A solution would be to keep my original Combine Fire and specify that the participating ships lose one maneuver for the next round, hence balancing the combat a lot more (no real "free" maneuvers, just an advance), while still allowing for ganging up on a target ship.

Sounds more sensible to me... What do you think?

[Chris Landmark]

Originally posted by KillerWhale
What I'm not really comfortable with is the "additional tactical maneuver which must be the same for all ships" part. In my initial draft, I wanted to allow the use of more sophisticated tactical maneuvers like Multiweapon for rallied ships. With the " The acting ship gains +1 to its weapon penetration for each ship that successfully executes their tactical maneuver (+2 in case of ships achieving an extraordinary success)" part, the ships have no interest in attempting to perform a complicated maneuver; they just have to go with Fire, and they are more likely to achieve extraordinary successes.

I don't necessarily see it that way. The added advantage of targeting multiple ships would offset the greater difficulty for Multifire. The ability to apply damage directly to a system would offset the greater difficulty for Target System. And unless you're trying to combine an extremely large number of ships, the bonus you get from using all weapon systems from Multiweapon will also offset the added difficulty. About the only tactical maneuver I can't see being used is Lock On, as that's the prerequisite for this maneuver.

My main point in saying "maneuver which must be the same for all ships" was to ensure that if you want to combine fire for a Multiweapon attack, all the ships had to perform a Multiweapon attack, etc., as opposed to just the lead ship performing a Multiweapon attack while all the other ships perform a Spread and take -3 to their Penetration (since all their attacks are doing is adding a bonus, not actually damaging anyone) to get a +9 bonus to their attacks, thus vastly increasing the chance of an extraordinary success.

A solution would be to keep my original Combine Fire and specify that the participating ships lose one maneuver for the next round, hence balancing the combat a lot more (no real "free" maneuvers, just an advance), while still allowing for ganging up on a target ship.

Sounds more sensible to me... What do you think?

I don't like it, mostly because many of the existing command maneuvers grant an additional tactical maneuver in excess of those allowed in the round, and none of those force you to "borrow" from the next rount (even Full Attack, which gives you both a free Multifire and a free Multiweapon, which will be much more devastating than Combine Fire). If every other command maneuver works this way, I see no reason to make new maneuvers that work differently. I'd favor a wording like this:

EFFECT: The acting starship tries to rally nearby allies in a coordinated attack on an enemy. If the test is successful, the acting starship as well as those successfully rallied gain a free tactical maneuver (which must be the same maneuver for all ships) which does not count against their action allowance. The Tactical Officers of each starship must have an individual action available to take advantage of it.
The acting starship gains +1 to its weapon penetration for each ship that successfully executes their tactical maneuver (+2 for each starship achieving an extraordinary success) when damage is applied to the target ship(s).

Perhaps having a command maneuver performed by one ship that grants extra actions to a group of ships is excessive, even if the effect is only to grant an additional +1 penetration to the attack. In this case, perhaps a requirement that all ships which wish to combine their fire must perform the Combine Fire maneuver would be in order, something like this:

EFFECT: The commanders of several starships attempt a coordinated attack to maximize damage. One ship gains an additional tactical maneuver which does not count against its action allowance for the round. That ship's Tactical Officer must have an individual action free to perform it.
For each ship after the first which successfully completes this maneuver, that tactical maneuver gains +1 to its weapon penetration value (+2 for each starship achieving an extraordinary success) when damage is applied to the target ship(s).

There you go, two options. One where a single ship performing a command maneuver gains benefit from a lot of ships completing a tactical manuever, and one where a lot of ships completing a command maneuver grants a bonus to a single ship performing a tactical maneuver. Surely one of these will suffice. I can see valid arguments for both.

-Chris Landmark

[KillerWhale]

The added advantage of targeting multiple ships would offset the greater difficulty for Multifire. The ability to apply damage directly to a system would offset the greater difficulty for Target System.

I agree... What my problem was, the added damage is the same if all the ships use Multiweapon at once, of Fire at once. But since Fire is easier, the chances for an extraordinary success are higher, thus likely to add more damage than if they use Multiweapon, which seems rather odd to me...

Unless I misunderstood something

Thanks for both your proposals. I think I prefer the second one, it's more flexible IMO... But there is still the Fire vs. Multiweapon chances of success issue that I'm not comfortable with.

I will think about all this some more, and even more important, do some playtesting with all this and see what comes out.

Thanks a lot for your insights!

[Doug Burke]

But the damage isn't the same, KW. With a Fire maneuver, you use only one weapon system's Penetration. With multiweapon, you total the penetration values for the systems used.

For example, Take a Consitution-class ship (2273 model). At short range, the ship would have Penetration values of 5 (phasers) and 4 (photon torpedoes).

If the ship uses a Fire maneuver, sure it has a better chance to hit, but it can only do either 5 or 4 Penetration-worth of damage.

On the other hand, a Multiweapon maneuver would combine the two. Yes, there is a +10 to the ship's protection, but the total Penetration value is 9...

[KillerWhale]

Thanks Doug for your answer!

Yes, I know that the damage is different for Fire and Multiweapon...

That's why asking all ships to perform the same maneuver in Combine Fire, and giving +1 per ship succeeding its maneuver, be it Fire or Multiweapon, doesn't seem logical to me. There should be more damage for Multiweapon, for instance.

That was the first idea of halving additional ships' damage - taking into account more risky maneuvers, and the damage it can deal.

If all ships additional to Combine Fire perform Fire, they're more likely to do an Extraordinary Success (+2).

If they all Multiweapon, they're more prone to normal successes (+1).

That's what I find odd, in the case of the Combine Fire draft

[Sarge]

How about, instead of +1 per additional ship, make the penetration +2 per additional weapon? That way a ship doing multifire would give a +1 for each weapon it fired, making it worthwhile for it to use multifire. And there can be an additional +1 bonus for every extraordinary success.

[KillerWhale]

Thanks Sarge!

That's more along the lines of my thinking...

I'll "betatest" the thing and let you know if my first version is too powerful. If so, I'll use your suggestion, Sarge.

Thanks all

[Doug Burke]

Sorry, 'bout that. I misunderstood.

One side note though. On rereading the thread, i noticed that your Tier Two "Lock On System" seems a little redundant. It is almost identical to the Target System maneuver (NG pg. 119) except that its affects apply to the next attack instead of it being an attack itself (as in target System). They even have the same requirements and Difficulty. One might wonder what the point is...

[KillerWhale]

Hi Doug,

I understand your wondering My wording may be a bit imprecise...

The point of Lock On System is to use a more powerful maneuver than Fire to target a sysyem. Mainly, I had the idea to allow the targeting a system with a Multiweapon (or another) maneuver, thus increasing the chances of knocking it off completely in one round.

I think it's not really possible with the base Target System - or I may have misunderstood the description...

[KillerWhale]

Okay, here is a new Combine Fire taking all remarks into account.

Combine Fire (Command)
Several starships combine their fire on their primary target, under the lead of the acting ship, in an attempt to penetrate the shields more efficiently.
PREREQUISITES: Lock On (T)
DURATION: Instant
TN: Target’s protection + 2/ship combining fire (beyond acting ship)
EFFECT: The TN of this maneuver is the target’s protection +2 for each ship the commanding officer wants to rally. If successful, these ships as well as the acting ship get an additional tactical maneuver to attack the primary target. All these maneuvers must be the same and are decided by the acting ship.
The acting ship gets weapon penetration bonus for its bonus tactical maneuver, as following:
+1 per weapon used by the additional ships (so in the case of a succeeded Multiweapon, each ship adds +2).
Additional ships that perform an extraordinary success add another +1 to the acting ship's weapon penetration.

Well. What do you thinK?