View Poll Results: What form of world government suits you?

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  • Federation: Individual nation-states that answer to the strong central gov't

    18 47.37%
  • Empire: One autocrat in charge of everything

    1 2.63%
  • Alliance: Individual nation states with a weak central gov't

    7 18.42%
  • Bureaucracy: Gov't controlled by various departments/ministries

    1 2.63%
  • Democracy: One man, one vote

    3 7.89%
  • None: Individual nation-states that interact sparingly or not at all with their neighbors

    2 5.26%
  • Other: Explain your choice

    6 15.79%
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Thread: What Kind of World Gov't?

  1. #31
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    I don't think that because a system leads to some abuses it means it is inherently flawed.

    Each system has its pros and cons. Currently, most of the western economical systems are capitalism-based, with some dose of socialism (welfare, taxes, and so on). This leads to abuses (people who need welfare not having them, people not trying to work because the unemployment assistance is enough for them, and so on), but this also lead to less inegality between people (a system with no welfare at all would lead to a segregation between the rich who get richer and the poor who get poorer). For instance, the children of disabled people deserve a chance in life - something they can't have if their parents don't get some form of assistance.

    As for the third world countries... well for one thing, we (at least Europe) are partially responsible of their current state. We invaded them, created countries with no regard of the current ethnical distribution, and left after completely upsetting their economical and technological system (both of wich happened to be some centuries behind at the time). Just this point some people (granted, that's mainly Europeans, again) have to keep in mind.


    Now to answer Dan's question : yes, I think there should be a global sharing of wealth, maybe on a personal rather than national level. People would be taxed according to their income, without any exception allowed (so that the middle class wouldn't suffer most of the taxes), and the global wealth redistributed on a personal level again.
    Of course, a limit of wealth is not acceptable for the same reasons pathsrider invoked.
    And the numbers of wealth redistributed would be fixed by the government, based on the income of every people concerned. Of course, this redistribution would not lead to an equal amount of wealth for everyone either (this would correspond to setting a wealth limit); the idea would be to help the less wealthy to live a less miserable life, and to try to earn more money on their own.

    As for a global democracy... yes, it has its flaws. Maybe there could be a democracy on the country level, then a "one country, one vote" on the international level. But in any case I think a world government would have to be a very complicated structure, much different from everything we have in our respective countries, if we want it to be efficient.
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  2. #32
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    Originally posted by qerlin
    "Maybe you shouldn't just take anything you hear for granted and get a little more detailed information first."

    That's right...us awful Americans don't know jack; we just react without thinking. I've got news for you, we are very aware of what the ICC represents and what it would be used for.

    "If you really want to know, why don't you just do a little research?"

    You truly are a condescending bugger, aren't you?
    Well, maybe I am. But if you look at what I was refering to with the first quoted statement you may notice how that came about: If someone says "at least there should be..." and in fact it is there, than I'd say this person either hasn't taken the time to inform himself or he wants people to believe something that (AFAICT) isn't true.
    Maybe I should have voiced that opinion in different words, but if speaking my mind makes me a "condescending bugger" than I'd rather be that than keep my mouth shut.

    I've got news for you, we are very aware of what the ICC represents and what it would be used for.
    Qerlin, who is "we" in that quote? Do you really mean to say that you can tell what all Americans know or think?
    Well if that's the case at least I am not the only condescending bugger here.


    Originally posted by Kerlof
    "If you really want to know, why don't you just do a little research?"
    Well the fact is that I did research this, there was no need for insult.
    Kerlof, I am sorry if that sounded like an insult - it wasn't intended as one. I should have taken the time to write what I meant, which was "I don't think your questions can be fully answered here, but may be answered in the statutes at the following link...".
    I was in a rather hectic situation while posting this and I'd like to apologize for not thinking enough while writing. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

  3. #33
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    Kerlof, I am sorry if that sounded like an insult - it wasn't intended as one. I should have taken the time to write what I meant, which was "I don't think your questions can be fully answered here, but may be answered in the statutes at the following link...".
    _______________________________________________
    I did look through it before my first post, I do still have issues with it. Not so much as an ideal but in how I can see it misused.
    And remember only 36 nations ratified it 37 (like mine) have not.
    Also some nations (China) that have not will act if this court tries to seize any of it's citizens.
    _________________________________________________
    I was in a rather hectic situation while posting this and I'd like to apologize for not thinking enough while writing. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

    __________________________________________________
    Not a problem my friend if that is the worse thing that happens today will be a good day...
    We Fight To Enrich The Spirit. (qa' aIje'meH maSuv):House Motto.

  4. #34
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    Why don't we begin with you sharing some of your wealth with me? I'll send you my address, you send me an international money order.

    And I'll pull my own "Ruby Ridge" before I pay taxes like the ones you pay in Germany.



    Originally posted by Tarbas
    I think a world government would be an excellent idea, if it would work. There would be the possibilty of sharing everything with everyone.

    I would vote for the Federation.

    But I don't believe that some kind of world government would be possible, because too many people are afraid to lose their countries identity and share some of their wealth.

    “I am a soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.”

    General George S. Patton, Jr.

  5. #35
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    Originally posted by calguard66
    Why don't we begin with you sharing some of your wealth with me? I'll send you my address, you send me an international money order.
    ROTFLMAO!!!
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  6. #36
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    Originally posted by calguard66
    Why don't we begin with you sharing some of your wealth with me? I'll send you my address, you send me an international money order.

    And I'll pull my own "Ruby Ridge" before I pay taxes like the ones you pay in Germany.



    I did not say that I am not one of the people who don't want to share their wealth (by the way, wealth? we now have the EURO )...

    but, I would if I could, the problem is we have to pay such high taxes for our cars and gas


    "United they stand"

  7. #37
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    "...the problem is we have to pay such high taxes for our cars and gas..."

    You drive a car!?! My God! Those things are evil; they're destroying the planet!

    Seriously: therein lies the rub; the governments are just not good at moving oney from the 'rich' to the poor...they are good at moving it from the 'rich' (middle class) to their friends in government, business, or the government unions. The best way to move wealth -- or more importantly opportunity -- is to get the gov't out of the people's pockets. This frees up the small business owner more money to hire more people. Or allows the average person to give more money to charities, or aid people they know down on their luck.

    Look at your elected officials sometime...most of these guys can't count, much less balance a budget.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  8. #38
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    Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone [Keynes].
    No power in the 'verse can stop me.

    "You know this roleplaying thing is awfully silly, let's just roll the dice." - overheard during a D&D 3E game.

  9. #39
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    Sounds more like communism to me.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  10. #40
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    Talk about indoctrination, eh?
    No power in the 'verse can stop me.

    "You know this roleplaying thing is awfully silly, let's just roll the dice." - overheard during a D&D 3E game.

  11. #41
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    You first, buddy...I started out as a liberal. I was indoctrinated. I broke mine.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  12. #42
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    I'm a bit surprised by the "democracy line" in the pole, I can't see how it's not compatible with multiple other choices.
    Hoping You'll understand all of this

  13. #43
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    Originally posted by qerlin

    Seriously: therein lies the rub; the governments are just not good at moving oney from the 'rich' to the poor...they are good at moving it from the 'rich' (middle class) to their friends in government, business, or the government unions. The best way to move wealth -- or more importantly opportunity -- is to get the gov't out of the people's pockets. This frees up the small business owner more money to hire more people. Or allows the average person to give more money to charities, or aid people they know down on their luck.

    Look at your elected officials sometime...most of these guys can't count, much less balance a budget.

    nothing to add, and you are right: politicians can't count


    "United they stand"

  14. #44
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    Actually, Communism is the belief that all people will get what they need, and all will work for the good of society.

    Unfortunately, the people in question are Homo Sapiens
    "That might have been the biggest mistake of my life..."

    "It is unlikely. I predict there is scope for even greater mistakes in the future given your obvious talent for them."

    Vila and Orac, Blake's Seven

  15. #45
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    The primary erroneous suppositions of Marxism are:

    1. Nobody wants more than he needs.

    2. Nobody wants more than everybody else.

    Unfortunately, eliminating these qualities in mankind will also eliminate ambition and invention, without which the human race will quickly become extinct.
    "It's hard being an evil genius when everybody else is so stupid" -- Quantum Crook

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