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Thread: Get Lord of the Rings RPG Now

  1. #31
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    I was under the impression that skilll ratings given in LotR for NPCs are skill ranks, not ranks plus modifer. (So the Witch King would add in his bearing modifer to 15 skill ranks!).


    I agree that he is certainly a cut above the normal character, but the same can be said for most of the powerful character in Middle Earth (especially for 1st age characters!).

    I think the offical maximumun number of skill RANKSis 12, not 12+attribute mod. I was suggesting the latter to account for some of the write-up given in the book.

  2. #32
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    Well, to make sure that I wasn't misunderstood in my interpretation, I'll clarify my thoughts:

    Max skill ranks for characters: 12, as noted on p. 116 of the Core Book, "Ranks range from 0 (untrained) to 12 and sometimes higher."

    Then the appropriate attribute modifier is applied, plus any appropriate miss. modifier from edges, circumstances, etc.

    Honestly, I don't know if the NPC write-ups add together the skill ranks plus the attribute modifiers or not. A bit of clarification on this would be nice, to be sure...

    It's possible, if the write-up for the Witch-king lists just the ranks in his skills, and not the total of his ranks plus his attribute modifiers, that he would would fall in the 'and sometimes higher' portion of the skill quote (above).



    Greg

  3. #33
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    Ok, I've hit upon a revelation (of sorts) in the area of NPC skills, so I thought I'd share it here.

    Looking at the example of the Witch-king (p. 284-285), I discovered that he had the following Order abilities for the Captain Elite Order: Air of Command, Fires of Devotion, Hero's Strength and Tactics.

    Now, I look at the pre-requisites for these abilities and discover that, to posess these abilities, the Witch-king has to have the following skill ranks (not total skill modifier, mind): Armed Combat 10+, Inspire 8+, Intimidate 6+, Siegecraft 8+.

    Now, I look at the Witch-king's skill section in his character write-up, and discover the following values listed: Armed Combat: Blades (Dagger, Longsword) +10, Inspire +8, Intimidate (Fear) +15 and Siegecraft +9.

    So, given that these values are very approximate to the base requirements for the Order abilities listed (and, in some cases, the exact value), it seems to me that the attribute modifiers are not added in for a total value, nor are any Order abilities or Edge modifiers.

    This, of course, brings up the issue of the 12 Skill Rank maximum (as the Witch-king has an Intimidate score of +15 (or 15 ranks), but I think that this is covered by the caveat in the Skills chapter with the quote that I gave in a previous post, that said that some skills could go higher than 12 ranks.

    Maybe Doug will jump in here with a more official word on the matter?


    Greg

  4. #34
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    Okay, the official response is that yes, the limit on skill ranks is 12 before applying any attribute or other modifications. And as for the Witch-King, yes he breaks that stricture. His skill is unnaturally high do to the imposing nature of his form (or some such).
    Former Decipher RPG Net Rep

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  5. #35
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    Thanks Doug, I appreciate the clarification.



    Greg

  6. #36
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    I am a little confused on one issue. I was flipping through my copy the other day, came to The Enemy section and started reading over the Balrog. Now, my question. What makes these powerful creatures any different then PCs? I noticed with the Balrog, yes he has great power in the form of abilities and high stats, but he seems to be able to be hit just like any other creature. No need of spells, magic weapons or anything else special (armour, Damage reduction, etc.) He has a large amount of hit points, and on a one-to-one basis would be lethal, but you get a good sized party, like the Company of the Ring and you could easily make hamburger out of him. Have I missed something? This just seems wrong to me. To quote Gandalf from the movie "Swords are of no use now. Run!" This strikes me as meaning you need something really special to even dent the Balrog, let alone kill him. As far as I can see this is not reflected in the game.

    I admit that I have not read the rules cover-to-cover yet.

  7. #37
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    Phantom,

    Well the balrog does have a not of nasty abilities. Just the damage from his sword (4d6+strength mod) is enough to serious hinder a character with one hit.

    And some of his sepcial powers make him much worse.
    His ability to intimidate/terrorize foes makes it rather difficult for a group to actually coordinate and stand up to him in the first place.

  8. #38
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    Over on the Decipher boards a poster named Wolveshead said this:

    "Becuase characters in books DO NOT follow the rules. They follow the whim of the story and the writer. They do what needs to be done according to the story."

    You have to keep in mind, that a literery character is different from a game character.

    The latter has a kind of reality to adhere to (the rules) which cannot be broken. Whereas in a book an author can always establish new abilties of a character or describe exceptions to established abilites.

    Which is why I (like Wolveshead from the Decipher boards) dislike statted characters from a book or TV series or some such.

    Joe
    No power in the 'verse can stop me.

    "You know this roleplaying thing is awfully silly, let's just roll the dice." - overheard during a D&D 3E game.

  9. #39
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    Well, I'll toss my thoughts in here, I think...

    What makes the Balrog different from the PC's? Well, Balrogs are Spirits of Fire, corrupted by the Great Enemy (Morgoth) during the creation of the World. Granted, that comes from the Silmarillion, but the basic premise is still applicable within the context of the Lord of the Rings. Still, though, they are legendary, terrible and ancient, and come from a time when things were greater in terms of power and ability. To my mind, the best way to reflect that is by using attributes, reactions and skills that are beyond the limitations in the book, or 'beyond the scope of Man', so to speak.

    Sure, the Balrog can be hit (as it's certainly not immune to damage), but look at how long it would take wear one down, even if the Fellowship were attacking it. With 27 Health, that boils down to 27 Health per Wound level, or 135 points of Health, which would disappear at a rate of approximately 2d6+7 (for longsword and above average Strength). Yes, that's a fair bit of damage, if a member of the Fellowship could even overcome the Balrog's Special Abilities, like Cloaked in Darkness and Terror. Then, factor in the damage that a Balrog can cause (4d6+7 sword, 2d6+10 whip), and it seems that Gandalf is right when he says that "swords are of no use now", as engaging in a blow-vs-blow battle against the Balrog would be relatively foolish.

    Sure, in the end, the Fellowship would have certainly wounded the Balrog, and perhaps defeated it outright, but how many members of the Fellowship would have perished in the battle? What if Frodo had died, and the Ring comes to the Balrog, or if Aragorn had died, and the hope for the future of Man with him? Gandalf's statement many have been a bit of deception, then, to prevent the unnecessary and untimely demise of the Fellowship. You could even stretch this a bit further and say that Gandalf possibly foresaw that he would be able to return, as his Great Task was not yet completed...thus, the Fellowship loses nothing, and gains greatly. With Gandalf gone, the Fellowship if free of the 'glue' that holds it together (Gandalf), and the Fellowship loses its wisest counselor, forcing each member to look inward to determine their own courses. Finally, it seems that, after reading the novels several times, that Gandalf needed to become Gandalf the White to fully rally the forces of the West against Sauron, and he needed to take Saruman's position to properly cast him from the Order of the Istari.

    Well, I've been a bit long-winded here (seems like that's pretty regular for me though, as of late). Hopefully, I've provided a bit of insight, and if not, maybe Doug or someone will let us know the Truth of things?


    Greg

  10. #40
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    Originally posted by Greg Davis
    Well, I'll toss my thoughts in here, I think...


    Sure, the Balrog can be hit (as it's certainly not immune to damage), but look at how long it would take wear one down, even if the Fellowship were attacking it. With 27 Health, that boils down to 27 Health per Wound level, or 135 points of Health, which would disappear at a rate of approximately 2d6+7 (for longsword and above average Strength). Yes, that's a fair bit of damage, if a member of the Fellowship could even overcome the Balrog's Special Abilities, like Cloaked in Darkness and Terror. Then, factor in the damage that a Balrog can cause (4d6+7 sword, 2d6+10 whip), and it seems that Gandalf is right when he says that "swords are of no use now", as engaging in a blow-vs-blow battle against the Balrog would be relatively foolish.

    Ok, laid out like that it now makes sense. Thanks.

  11. #41
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    You're quite welcome, Phantom...glad I could lend a hand!



    Greg

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