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Thread: [CODA - partially] Thollian Starships

  1. #1
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    CODA or ICON Tholian Starships

    This is meant to be a brain storming area for people interested in creating Tholian starships. All I ever remember them using on screen were phaser type weapons and the Interphasic Web weapon. Does anyone have any other ideas for Tholian technology. I was planning to run a campaign with the Tholians being the "Badguys". But all I have are some SSD's from SFB to go on. Anyone have other theories about them? Their "real" appearance ? Price of Freedom had some nice little tidbits, just enough to get me thinking about using the Tholians for a change. Everyone uses the Dominion, Cardassians, and Romulans as badguys. So I was planning a campaign set during the Tholian Wars.
    I'm still trying to figure out if the Tholians use any "conventional technology" , maybe they don't even use warp drive, maybe hyperspace drive, or even fold systems. Weapons? who knows? So I'll try to write up something and maybe post some.
    Last edited by Antonsb214; 09-03-2002 at 05:59 PM.
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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  2. #2
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    The only "appearance" of the Tholians was in "The Tholian Web", although they were referred to a number of times in other series, and they have been featured in at least one novel that I am aware of.

    Their small "wedge" ships, the only ones we've seen, have conventional phasers comparable in strength to Federation weapons.

    The "web" is a kind of specialized tractor field. It is not interphasic -- "interphase" was a term coined to describe the point at which two universes drifted close enough to be more or less coexistant. It was during a point of interphase that the Defiant slipped into ... wherever it went. And it was during a point of interphase that Kirk was recovered.

    At least one game system, possibly SFB, postulates that other forms of the web exist, and that the web is an extrapolation of technology used to tow one or more planets (possibly Tholia itself) through space.

    As a plot device, the web is somewhat limited, because it requires a target that is unwilling or unable to move for a substantial period of time. In the episode, this requirement was met because the ship wasn't willing to risk changing the interphase time by using power (the forces that cause the two universes to overlap are complex, and easily altered by the use of energy -- the Enterprise needed to ensure that an interphase would occur soon enough to retrieve Kirk before his air ran out).

    My take on the Tholians is this:

    First, I have no CODA writeup for them. This is because it is impossible for them to interact with humanoid species directly.

    Tholia is a very hot planet -- lead exists there as a liquid. It has little or no atmosphere. It is rich in metals, especially lead, iron, nickel, cobalt, and similar. It has a high magnetic field -- about a hundred times stronger than Earth's.

    A Tholian is about two and a half meters tall. The lower half or so is a sort of prism that tapers to a point. Within it is a mass of molten lead, admixed with other elements. This swirls about, and the gyroscopic action is what keeps the being upright. The swirling is caused by internal action (Tholians do not have muscles, but they have structures that accomplish similar functions). When the Tholian wishes to move, it couples the internal motion to external lower shell, which begins to rotate. The Tholian can make minor adjustments to the configuration of this shell, and in this manner can select the direction in which it travels. At the widest point -- the "waist" -- the diameter is about 75 cm.

    The upper portion of the Tholian is more complex. It contains the brain and certain other structures that serve metabolic functions. Tholians do not injest matter for energy; they gather energy from the heat and magnetism of their surroundings, and store this in internal battery-like cells for use later. They do periodically inject matter to facility grown and crystal repair. They do not require water. Metabolites are moved through the body magnetically in microscopic ferromagnetic structures that are analogous to blood and other transport cells. Tholians injest matter by resting any portion of their body against it; small pores open to extract what is required. They have no digestive system. They do not respire (take in a gas).

    The Tholian brain more resembles a microprocessor than anything else. It is mostly composed of silicon, with various impurities, and it operates using electrical and magnetic currents. There are "nerve plexus" points in the body that are similar to ganglia, but they do not communicate with the brain via nerves; the communication is apparently magnetic (this is one area on which Federation xenophysiologists disagree).

    Tholian senses seem to include visible light , and may include other parts of the visible spectrum as well. They can detect sound, but poorly. It is unknown whether they have analogoues to taste, smell, or touch.

    Communication is via extremely low powered radio signals. These can be broadcast or narrowcast (to a specific arc) at the Tholian's discretion.

    Tholians have four manipulatory limbs that are more or less like claw tipped tentacles. Each is about 150cm long, and is flexible for most of that length. This flexibility is accomplished by a fluid filled core (similar to the "base") containing chambers that are inflated and deflated. The "hand" consists of many small filaments that are manipulated electrically or magnetically (researchers aren't completely sure). These can be "joined" to form larger digits for tasks requiring more effort). The exact number of filaments varies with the individual, but is always the same on all hands. Unlike most species, a Tholian can regrow a severed limb. However, this takes considerable time.

    Tholians are extremely long lived; it's not uncommon for them to reach 1,500 years old, and exceptional individuals have lived to be as old as 1,800.

    Tholians will quickly freeze solid in an environment that humans would find hot. This is not necessarily fatal; but it can be. If deprived of magnetic energy for more than a few hours, they will starve; this is always fatal. Most of the brain's "structure" degrades quickly upon death, although Starfleet researchers have managed to recover some information from Tholian corpses.

    Again, this is just my take.



    Tholians are very accomplished at manipulating energy, because they're constantly surrounded by it. They're also very good at materials science; these two disciplines are frequently joined to produce substances unknown to Federation science. Years of analysis have still to determined to a certainty just what a "web" is, but it is clearly capable of interacting in both normal space and subspace -- something no substance, by itself, should be able to do.

    Tholians don't really have much in the way of medical skills, because not much goes wrong with them, and what does tends to be fatal (cracks to the upper body, for example). They can patch some wounds, such as cracks to the lower body, that are rarely fatal. (In earlier generations, such wounds typically left the creature without balance and reliable locomotion, as it was unable to maintain the proper fluid balance.

    Early Tholian weapons were similar to early weapons everywhere -- except they never really developed the edged weapon, because it's not terribly useful. Later weapons caused fatality by interfering with the individual's magnetic fields; because of the need to defend themselves, the Tholians have developed the art of magnetic shielding to a high degree.

    Tholian vessels travel via warp drive, but they do not power this with warp plasma, nor do they have nacelles containing discrete engines. Rather, the entire ship seems to be a machine that can create a warp field. Federation science toyed with this idea decades ago, but dismissed it as less efficient and reliable than generating such a field with dedicated engine hardware. Tholians do not use M-AM or quantum singularities for power. What they do use is unclear.

    Those are just some ideas I've been using for Tholians in my campaign. Feel free to use, modify, or ignore as is convenient.

  3. #3
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    Excellent writeup, Fesarius. You could even say it was "Fenominal."
    Davy Jones

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    The only "appearance" of the Tholians was in "The Tholian Web", although they were referred to a number of times in other series, and they have been featured in at least one novel that I am aware of.

    As far as I know thats not right!!

    They Appear at DS9 also

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    Originally posted by Cmdr. Maddox
    As far as I know thats not right!!

    They Appear at DS9 also
    He is right - their only appearance is in "The Tholian Web."

    They are mentioned, however, in both TNG and DS9. In TNG, Riker's father was the sole survivor of a Tholian attack on a Federation Starbase - Riker later wrote a thesis about fighting them. The DS9 comments included a reference to "Tholian Silk" (which corresponds to the advanced materials science of Fesarius' write-up) and to the Tholian ambassador visiting late in the series (which conjures some interesting ideas about specialised life support).

    Startrek.com also notes that "Tholians are a hive-mind and known for their punctuality. One of the independent border races that could have been dragged into a Klingon civil war, due to their proximity."

    The novel Vendetta has the Tholian homeworld attacked by the superweapon for which Kirk's Doomsday Machine was only a prototype.
    Jon

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  6. #6
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    Here is my first ship, it is CODA. It is supposed to be the same type that the Enterprise encountered in 2268.

    Tholian Scout
    Production Data:
    Origin: Tholian Holdfast
    Class and Type: Shard-class Scout
    Year Launched: 2268?

    Hull Data:
    Structure: 15
    Size/Decks: 3/6
    Length/ Height/ Beam: 55/20/20
    Complement: 30

    Operational Data:
    Transporters: 3 Standard, 3 Emergency
    Cargo Units: 30
    Shuttlebay: None
    Tractor Beam: 1 aft
    Sensor System: Class 2 (C)
    Operations System: Class 2 (C)
    Life Support: Class 2 (C)

    Propulsion:
    Impulse System: Class IIIa
    Warp System: Class IIIa

    Tactical Data:
    Phaser Banks: Type IV (X3/B)
    Penetration: 5/3/3/0/0
    Tholian Web: Type I (B)*
    Energy Dampening Field
    Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
    Protection/Threshold: 13/2

    Miscellaneous Data:
    Maneuver Modifiers: +0 C, +3 H, +0 T
    Traits: Nimble, Enhanced System (Beam Weapon)

    Note: the following is a mix of my own ideas and SFB background.
    The Tholians arrived in the Alpha Quadrant from another galaxy. They are crystalline lifeforms with vaguely humanoid bodies. They are refugees from another galaxy. Rumors tell of them having been the rulers of a vast empire, which then fell. Another rumor tells of their former subject, call Seltorians, a hivemind insectoid race is currently hunting them down and may someday find them here. Then the Tholians fled their own galaxy, taking their homeworld with them. They lost much of the ability to make ships larger than the scout type. Since then, they have rebuilt their shipyards and are building larger ships, such as the types that destroyed Starbase 277. Their ships have the appearance of crystals. It is not known if they are built or grown. The larger ships appear as 2 or more of the Scout type joined together. Their weapons loadout is still not completely known, only that they are powerful.

    * The Web weapon requires two ships to work. When two ships join their aft sections together they can cast a web around an immobile or slower vessel. This requires several helm maneuvers to cast a web around another ship, the number of rounds is equal to the size of the ship. This "web" will trap any ships caught in it. It creates an energy dampening field, all ships caught begin to loose power to all systems untill finally life support fails. The web can be used to tow whatever is in the web. Trying to pull free only makes the web stronger. This could be like the boobytrap asteroid field.
    Still trying to figure out the mechanics of the web.
    Last edited by Antonsb214; 09-04-2002 at 08:13 PM.
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

    "Gravity is a harsh mistress....", The Tick

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Antonsb214
    Here is my first ship, it is CODA. It is supposed to be the same type that the Enterprise encountered in 2286.

    Minor nit: you mean 2266/67, right? The Big-E was already 1701-A in 2286.
    Davy Jones

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  8. #8
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    Yep 2268, little typo.
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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  9. #9
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    My only concern with the ship design is the "tractor beam". Are you saying that their web weapon is a simple tractor beam (as per design rules), built to only be operated by two vessels?

    Personally, the web weapon, while being a tractor beam-like device, should be a separate system entirely, with some greater space requirements (given the effect it has). It should at least cost a space per size of ship.
    Davy Jones

    "Frightened? My dear, you are looking at a man who has laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom, and chuckled at catastrophe! I was petrified."
    -- The Wizard of Oz

  10. #10
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    Maybe there will be something in the Starships book?
    I figure that the web was only a plot device in the TOS episode. How could you imagine something like that working. The only other time I've seen something like it was when Q put up the wall in front of the Ent-D in the TNG pilot, Encounter at Farpoint. Maybe we should ask the experts for some help?
    Does anyone remember the exact effects that the web had on the Defiant and Enterprise? I don't happen to have the episode on tape yet.
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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  11. #11
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    Thanks! This all originated from my desire to create a completely "alien" race, that is, one not a consequence of Galen's "precursors", and one that is substantially different from the "human in a rubber suit/mask" type of alien that the restrictions of television more or less require.

    Originally posted by Sea Tyger
    My only concern with the ship design is the "tractor beam". Are you saying that their web weapon is a simple tractor beam (as per design rules), built to only be operated by two vessels?
    In the episode, the web was constructed by two ships. The filaments were connected and spun. All we know about it is what Spock said "this structure has no analogue in Federation science".

    Presumably, a larger ship might be able to project a web, or to spin one faster.

    When the web was completed, the small Tholian ships were able to use it to move the Enterprise, despite the fact that one of them had been damaged in the earlier combat. And despite the fact that Spock wanted the ship to hold position. We saw no straining of the engines, as is the case with a conventional tractor beam. From this, I gathered that the web interfered with normal/subspace in some manner that essentially made the Enterprise's engines ineffective.

    So, while the web seems to serve the purpose of a tractor beam, it is not a tractor beam. There's some question whether the Tholians would have much conventional tractor beam technology, since they solved the problem a different way (that has some advantages and some disadvantages relative to a conventional tractor beam).

    Originally posted by Sea Tyger
    Personally, the web weapon, while being a tractor beam-like device, should be a separate system entirely, with some greater space requirements (given the effect it has). It should at least cost a space per size of ship.
    I would assume the system would be fairly large. Its existance argues that the Tholians had replicator technology, or something like it, at a time when that was a pipe dream of the Federation. This was part of the basis for my conjecture that they have advanced materials science and energy manipulation tech, vis a vis the Federation. I believe the web would require most of the ship's energy output; the drawbacks would be analogous to those of the old style Romulan plasma torpedoes.

  12. #12
    Well I use to have the information (Icon stats derived from SFB) on my computer...I cannot find it now . Web Generators, Web Snares, Web Casters, hull and systems tech notes.

    Basiclly the Generator is what was seen in the show.
    The Snare had two modes- the first functions like most beam weapons, the second can launch a mass of 'Web' that temporally holds an object in place. The Caster created an instant Web field (the end result of the slow Generators). Generators were later used like the Federation's tractor beams, to move objects through space.

    Some note on Web Technology is energy is absorbed by the Web, to a limit (I forget how I did this) and matter gets stuck in it (time based on Web Strength vs. movement ability). However certain frequencies are ignored, that is how the Tholians can fire, move, or use sensors through the Web Fields.

    There is a write-up on the Tholian 'scout' in the LUG TOS book, I really disagree with it though.
    Phoenix...

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  13. #13
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    Here is my first ship, it is CODA. It is supposed to be the same type that the Enterprise encountered in 2268.

    Tholian Scout
    Production Data:
    Origin: Tholian Holdfast
    Class and Type: Shard-class Scout
    Year Launched: 2268?

    Hull Data:
    Structure: 15
    Size/Decks: 3/6
    Length/ Height/ Beam: 55/20/20
    Complement: 30

    Operational Data:
    Transporters: 3 Standard, 3 Emergency
    Cargo Units: 30
    Shuttlebay: None
    Tractor Beam: 1 aft
    Sensor System: Class 2 (C)
    Operations System: Class 2 (C)
    Life Support: Class 2 (C)

    Propulsion:
    Impulse System: Class IIIa
    Warp System: Class IIIa

    Tactical Data:
    Phaser Banks: Type IV (X3/B)
    Penetration: 5/3/3/0/0
    Tholian Web: Type I (B)*
    Energy Dampening Field
    Deflector Shield: Class 2a (B)
    Protection/Threshold: 13/2

    Miscellaneous Data:
    Maneuver Modifiers: +0 C, +3 H, +0 T
    Traits: Unique System (Web Generator) , Enhanced System (Beam Weapon)

    Note: the following is a mix of my own ideas and SFB background.
    The Tholians arrived in the Alpha Quadrant from another galaxy. They are crystalline lifeforms with vaguely humanoid bodies. They are refugees from another galaxy. Rumors tell of them having been the rulers of a vast empire, which then fell. Another rumor tells of their former subject, call Seltorians, a hivemind insectoid race is currently hunting them down and may someday find them here. Then the Tholians fled their own galaxy, taking their homeworld with them. They lost much of the ability to make ships larger than the scout type. Since then, they have rebuilt their shipyards and are building larger ships, such as the types that destroyed Starbase 277. Their ships have the appearance of crystals. It is not known if they are built or grown. The larger ships appear as 2 or more of the Scout type joined together. Their weapons loadout is still not completely known, only that they are powerful. The Scout uses its superior maneuverability to allow it to fly circles around a target ship and start a web.

    * The Web weapon requires two ships to work. When two ships join their aft sections together they can cast a web around an immobile or slower vessel. This requires several helm maneuvers to cast a web around another ship, the number of rounds is equal to the size of the ship. This "web" will trap any ships caught in it. It creates an energy dampening field, all ships caught begin to loose power to all systems untill finally life support fails. The web can be used to tow whatever is in the web. Trying to pull free only makes the web stronger. This could be like the boobytrap asteroid field.
    Still trying to figure out the mechanics of the web.

    Does anyone have any ideas for TNG era Tholians and their ships?
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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  14. #14
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    Star Fleet Battles had a more advanced weapon called a web-caster. This could be fired like a torpedoe and immobilize a moving vessel. Non-Tholian weapons can't penetrate the web, so they get a couple of free shots with phasers til the web fades. Without a Tholian ship attached, the web loses power and fades. Just some ideas for brainstorming.
    tmutant

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  15. #15
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    Well, looking at the TOS era SRM, there is a Tholian Scout in it. They state that there are many interphasic rifts in Tholian territory or along there borders, I guess it doesn't "phase" them as much
    That would give the opportunity to have a starship in the helpless position of not being able to move and easy targets for the web generator. But what does anyone think a TNG era Tholian warship might mount as weaponry?
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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