Am I the Only One That Have Players That Want To Play a Section 31 character?

[Nene_Richards]

Let me give you a background on what is going on in my game, I am putting together first.

I am working on my TNG Game putting it together. While I finish building my world, I like to ask my players' for their character concepts and start working for backgrounds, before I do this: I put together a packet for my players telling them the synapses about the game, Era, etc. I have the character guidelines in there as well allowed races with page numbers & book; postions with page numbers & book; Star Trek Timeline and of course concepts that I do not allow such as Section 31 characters.

Now most of this is redundant to many of my core players, which including myself are 5 people. We have talked about this game for awhile even had their input on what should be in the game (What a nice Narrator, I am) aliens, postions on the ship, etc. I love player input as I am putting together the game, we all agree on the Section 31 not a player concept adding it to the list of note allowed to help remind players. We all think this is nice and flexable for everyone with <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=23&k=the%20right%20stuff" onmouseover="window.status='the right stuff'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">the right stuff</a> listed.

Now we have someone outside our core wanting join our fun (after we set up our rules). Always happy for new blood. We sat down and talked, I went through my 5 page packet (most of it is Star Trek Timeline). I mentioned to the new player that I am not allowing Section 31 characters for players. We had what I thought was a great talk over all we talked outside Trek afterwards as well as the game where I am planning on going with it. Rules of Ettiquete (My gaming group has 3 females, 2 males) when dealing with group (in fact other than the married couple, the single guy and one of the single girls hooked up because of a previous game I ran <yes I have a position in the wedding as I got them together>) so we do not have issues people dating, but the single female needs to say so (trust me she would). Well, I am getting off topic a little, but I went down the list as I said we talked about ideas, he had a great idea for the Science Officer.

I do want to make a note: He understands the difference between Starfleet Intelligence and Section 31.

Well, I got his e-mail the other day. He now wants to play a Section 31 character undercover on the ship as the Security Chief. That he did not like the concept he pitched to me, which was what he told me when he walked in through the door and how he loves this idea of a Section 31 character to spy on the other players and he really wants to play it. Of course in e-mail and I am a pretty approuchable person.

So of course, I will be dealing with this. Right now, I am a little annoyed. He has a packet, etc. So I am thinking of a nice soft but stern approach with the player on this, I sent him an e-mail being polite that the concept is not allowed no Section 31 players, he of course, answered with the why not and I really love this concept. I am going to give him a call soon, when he gets off of work. This needs to be talked about and resolve it, I am trying to work with him as much as I can, but if he does not listen well you all Narrators and Players, you know what will happen.

It seems everytime I want to run a Star Trek Game, at least one Player wants to play a Section 31 Character ignoring what I say fighting for that concept, am I the only one? With something like this?

[Ergi]

I didn't really have such a player in my group, maybe because I was lucky, maybe because our player pool consists only of university students, or maybe because I have an aura making people think twice before asking for something like that.

If you want to be really mean, let him play a section 31 spy. At least let him think that. Why should section 31 want to spy on the other PCs anyway? It would be much more likely that the Tal Shiar or maybe even Obsidian Order has discovered certain personality traits in the character, making him suitable for spying on his comrades, and has fooled him into providing them with information about what is going on on his ship. The only problem is getting such an adventurous and illoyal character through Starfleet Academy. (And the player in question might not be mature enough to appreciate the irony of the situation, once his character is confronted with the truth.)

[Nene_Richards]

Why should Section 31 want to spy on the other PCs anyway?

Exactly, what I said and thought. Everyone are working on their backgrounds etc. This game takes place days after Wolf 359. I even asked the player why, he said he did not know but I should come up with something.

The group are off the Romulan Neutral Zone trying to maintain a strong front since the fleet was decimated. What concerns me is this player be one of those Lone Wolf types, every player I have had that wanted to play Section 31 characters turn out to be Lone Wolves, try to do everything without anyone's help, do not want any character interaction, etc.

If you are a spy undercover you are big and friendly and happy type everyone's friend something like a William Riker, his security officer is cold stoic and just watches people, that is how he spies on the players... He keeps his distance, etc.

Hell, if he wanted to be Starfleet Intelligence Officer Undercover as I suggested to him, I have no issue (if he fails oh well). He said no he wanted to be Section 31. He must think he gets special gifts and such...

He knows Starfleet Intellegence and Section 31 are two seperate entities, but he wants this. I am giving him one last shot.

[Sea Tyger]

Nene --

It's your game, and if you don't want a Section 31 character, then you shouldn't have to allow this guy in if that's all he wants to play. It's nice to have new blood once-in-a-while, but not at the expense of your enjoyment as Narrator and the concept of your campaign.

If you wish to give him one last chance to change his mind, that's fine, but I think you're more than justified in saying no, and send him on his way with a good luck.

[Tobian]

Sounds like typical PBEM politics to me - been there, done that, got 20 Tshirts

Well you have a few options 1) No

2) say no but explain he can play a Starfleet inteligence officer with the same auspice..

3) Say yes.

Say what?!

As Ergi said mess with his head. The other nice thing about Section 31 is that most of it didn't exist. it has extremelly low resources, no support, if you get caught you are SCREWED and mostly it was a confidence trick. A Player in Section 31 might not even be in Section 31. As the Storyteller you have to play half of it out.. so mess with his head. Play the 'boss' character and have hm do extremelly unpleasant things.. Starfleet inteligence has cleanup and is, at the end of the day inside the fleet.. Section 31 operatives consist of 1 single individual working ALONE with a shady contact, who could well be lying to them. If he is caught he is going to end up in a spiral of character self destruction, depending on how well thought out his lies are!

What happens if the character dissapears for 2 days with missing memory, with no teeth or hair, and a couple of vicious scars Section 31 is nasty, especially to it's self!

I Generally hate PC's who sneak about, crap on their friends and tie the story up in knots around themselves.. it's all about being the centre of attention, so if they must give them ALL of the atention. Section 31 don't get accolades, but they do get into lots of trouble!

[Nene_Richards]

Before, I kick out anyone in this case, this player has not met my players yet.

I like to have one more sit down face to face, I am offering him and we will resolve this or he is out the door. I am going to be blunt speak to his face, I am not doing e-mail discussion or on phone. It needs to be one-on-one, I am giving him his last shot before I shove his character and him out to the airlock of not playing with us. My gaming group is 24-36 year olds, we are all mature here. This player is 28 but if he is arguing with me now, imagine how the game will be like. I don't mind debate if their is something to debate, this is not one of them.

As for messing with their minds, you have to have one and feelings. I have messed with players minds like this before and they don't get it. They act like they were brutally tortured since they were a kid and shrug it off. Their characters never have any emotion and when you betray them they have their characters be old school Superman, no emotion.

Example: One player had a character, the concemit nice guy, that had a younger sister, who he was extremely close with, his best friend. He was the older brother and she was his spunky side kick. I had his character watch as his sister was violated and tortured. He said in his background if anything would happen to his sister, he could not stand it, it was his worse nightmare, he would never let them get away with it etc. This deserved an emotional response, which was in character, he went complete opposite just shrugged it off and said, 'Oh Well'. The rest of the players were horrified over the scene. The player after they saved the sister did nothing never talked to her helped her anything, even when she begged for him. He stayed as the nice guy ignored his sister... which resulted in something very nasty and tragic.

I am getting that kind of inkling from this one. I am giving him one shot or his is gone as I said. I am not going to plan something to get him if he won't play ball.
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All I was asking was in this thread:

Am I the only one getting these Section 31 concepts from players?

In 3 Trek Campiegns I have ran I have had 1-3 players per campeign wanting to be Section 31 characters.

[Pericles]

I'm sure the draw of being Section 31 is they are shadowy and have the mandate to do whatever they feel is right to protect the Federation. I agree that Section 31 is a plot device and never should a PC get to be one. A "person of interest" that they would like to do a specific job, but not to actually join.

I would recommend you stand your ground and steer clear of this guy, it sounds like he wants a Starfleet "License to Kill" to me, which is how Section 31 operates. Plus you are spot on, if he's giving you this much grief during character generation, he is going to be nothing but a problem child during play.

[Nene_Richards]

I'm sure the draw of being Section 31 is they are shadowy and have the mandate to do whatever they feel is right to protect the Federation. I agree that Section 31 is a plot device and never should a PC get to be one. A "person of interest" that they would like to do a specific job, but not to actually join.

I would recommend you stand your ground and steer clear of this guy, it sounds like he wants a Starfleet "License to Kill" to me, which is how Section 31 operates. Plus you are spot on, if he's giving you this much grief during character generation, he is going to be nothing but a problem child during play.

Yeah, that I understand believe me he is almost out the door, what I am asking is this: Am I the only one getting people wanting to play Section 31 Personel? Has anyone else gotten people like this? Or is it a regional thing?

[Pericles]

I personally run in the TMP era, but according to Enterprise, the origins of Section 31 pre-date the Federation itself, so asking to be in that group is an "All eras" possibility. I have never had anyone ask to be a 31er, but it doesn't surprise me min/maxers would ask. Imagine the resources of Starfleet with none of that organization's morality to hold that power in check? Nirvanna for a power gamer so I say you are just having an unsual spate there and not a true trend.

[Cpt. Lundgren]

Moving the thread as it is not CODA specific.

And about the thread in question. No, no one have wanted to be a Section 31 operative. My closest problem is that my Ex (who doesn't know much about Trek) wants to be a full Betazoid or, after she looked over my shoulder last week while I was reading in the Encyclopedia and spotted an image of Odo in his gelatin form, some sort of shape-shifter. Both would wreck havoc on some of my story arcs.

Would I allow someone to be a member of Section 31? Not likely. It could happen if it was a player that I knew well. But it would most likely be what I use to call a "Player controlled NPC" where the player is more of a secret co-GM who just control one character and we coordinate it between sessions.

But I have a hard time seing how a Section 31 agent ends up as the chief of security unless it is either; A. a small ship, B. a sleeping mole that is uninterrested of the crew, C. One of the characters is one of the 10 most important persons of UFP (personaly, I think that they would rather spend those resources to put someone in striking range of that Borg who pretends he his the captain of the Enterprise).

By the way, nice to see someone else using the wake of Wolf359. The campaign I have been preparing uses Wolf359 as the reason why the group ends up in the command of a worn Miranda with a very inexperienced crew, patrolling and exploring the frontier. After all, someone has to replace those ships that are moved to the core worlds and the neutral zone.

[Nene_Richards]

Well my crew were on a ship that arrived late to Wolf 359, a stigma the crew will be working hard to overcome in their Nebula class ship. Their captian is named Matthew Decker III and we all know the history of that name.

Looking like an area thing. Never met so many lame people.


Oh if anyone is interested, I called the guy for a sit down to go over this. He called me too controlling, I would not let his character grow. I was not open to new and original ideas.

His Science Officer concept because of a childhood accident had cybernetic implant to help stabilize his mind. The cybernetics would allow him to think like a computer and can access computer systems with his mind.

I loved his idea then he switched to the Section 31 concept. I was jazzed creating the cyberware for the Science Officer, was cracking open some of my other cybernetic RPGs to come up with ideas on this. That was cool and nice, he calls me controlling.

[Pericles]

Imagine that, a GM with the unmitigated gall to want input on the characters and players in her campaign. For Shame Lieutenant Richards, for SHAME, maybe you need to restrict yourself to your quarters and think about what you have done!

Actually I think you are all over this campaign of yours. I've never tried a PBeM, but you've got me curious about it now. I just need to find where I put the character sheet for my telepathic, half secretly genetically enhanced human/escaped Borg drone, Antosian trained (so I also have limited shapeshifting ability), dual class 12th level Monk/Assassin to submit to the campaign. The Section 31 guy was just a twink, my dude is a completely legitimate character concept that I'm sure you'll approve, that is after you get out of being restricted to quarters.

[Nene_Richards]

Imagine that, a GM with the unmitigated gall to want input on the characters and players in her campaign. For Shame Lieutenant Richards, for SHAME, maybe you need to restrict yourself to your quarters and think about what you have done!

Actually I think you are all over this campaign of yours. I've never tried a PBeM, but you've got me curious about it now. I just need to find where I put the character sheet for my telepathic, half secretly genetically enhanced human/escaped Borg drone, Antosian trained (so I also have limited shapeshifting ability), dual class 12th level Monk/Assassin to submit to the campaign. The Section 31 guy was just a twink, my dude is a completely legitimate character concept that I'm sure you'll approve, that is after you get out of being restricted to quarters.

I am not the GM, I am one of the players. I am the chief engineer trying to drum up some players. The loyalist Trek geek I am.

Our game takes place 2 years after Nemesis, we are on a one of a kind ship.

My game is my TT I am working .

[First of Two]

I was concerned, when I started GMing a Trek game, that one of my players might want to be a Section 31 person... or try to surprise me by trying to become one.

So, sneaky bastard that I am, I made one of the NPC's, the ship's security chief, an anti-Section 31 SFI operative (something that's been supported by some of the Section 31 books by Pocket), so that if he tried anything, my NPC could be there to pre-emptively thwart him.

"Awww, sorry. Somebody detected your spy camera, and all your transmitter gets is endless hours of some ancient Earth 2-D program called 'Full House.'"

It ended up not happening, but I kept the NPC anyway. You never know when that sort of background might come in useful.

[WarriorKnight]

No I've never had anyone want to play a section-31 operative;but I don't think I'd be that oppossed to it.Bashir only had his starfleet training & Reed only Appeared to have normal training too.Section-31 appeared to me too recuit people who were good in their field,smart,& good at thinking on their feet.No special training or abilities.Yea I know Sloan was good at sneaking around & using a holodeck;but the main characters have done just well in all the Treks,with their normal training.