Hey kids, guess what time it is!

[RaconteurX]

I don't think any of my current Trek group, myself included, has used or needed a Narrator's Screen in decades, so its delay hasn't exactly troubled us. As for the rest, I know that licensed properties always require more hoop-jumping than other products and this may be especially true of Star Trek. For all we know, Viacom must approve every step of the process, so bluelines, galleys, etc. all have to go through them as well as Decipher before the actual printing can be done.

As I've said in prior posts on this subject, narrator's screens are tricky to produce at best due to the weight of the stock used and the need for precise registration between each side. Factor in the problem associated with four-color high-resolution graphics (especially busy ones, likethose taken from CGI movie stills), and the situation becomes far more difficult. Yet another issue is the printer's workload: they can't halt the presses and delay every other job in the queue just because one job develops problems.

The problem job gets pushed back in the queue until the issues can be resolved, and then it may have to wait for other jobs to be completed. This is a very routine thing in the printing industry, one with which I am certain Decipher is quite familiar. Card games, especially collectible ones, frequently go through the exact same series of problems, and as we all know Decipher produces several of those in addition to their roleplaying game lines.

In short, chill out. Whining and naysaying won't get product out any faster, and only causes the manufacturer to turn a deaf ear to the community. Yes, they realize you are disappointed; so are they. No, there is nothing they can do about it; nor can you. Be patient.

[KillerWhale]

The problem job gets pushed back in the queue until the issues can be resolved, and then it may have to wait for other jobs to be completed.

...and then they lose the contract...
Believe me, I edit books (well not directly, but I work closely with the publisher). If the guys tell me "you'll have your product by 36th januember" and they are not able to deliver on time, I lose all promotion effort, my distribution and all. Needless to say, I will change printers quickly. All the more if they are more than one month late. But hey, I'll stop repeating myself from now on

Yes, it's true naysaying will not make the products arrive faster.

All we ask for, it seems, is a piece of info from Decipher... Letting us know they didn't forget us, to sum up!! So few updates and info on their official site does not help much to put some trust into the company...

[RaconteurX]

You forget one very important factor, KillerWhale: that of scale. A traditional publishing house can afford to push around its printers, due simply to the volume of work (and thus income) they provide. Decipher, along with most other game manufacturers, is not even remotely in the same category and has to cope with the fortunes of the moment.

You make an excellent point, though, in mentioning the way in which publishing houses bully their printers. If Decipher's printers have similar clients, it is no wonder nothing has been shipped... they are shifted farther back in the queue whenever a "money client" demands a quicker turnaround time on their latest best-seller. Gaming is a niche market, after all.

[Dan Gurden]

Surely at the end of the day. The focus should be on product quality not speed...

Many of us remember the LEGENDARY ETA's assigned to the ICON material from LUG... and some of the comments made to the writers who had done their damdest to get the product written to the deadline...

So Far Decipher has been in the Ballpark (as in the same year), and I am sure that everything possible is being done to assure us something before christmas.

But would you rather a half-arsed product barely worth the paper its printed on written in time to ensure that Paramount and printer concerns are taken into account to allow the book to be out as stated, or would you prefer the quality product?

I know where my preference lies... Besides, surely we have the knowledge of the TV shows and the imagination to fill in the blanks until then?

[KillerWhale]

Wow wow, RaconteurX, don't shoot!

All I'm saying is: I have a contract with a firm and this firm says: "Man, I'll have your product tomorrow."
If they have it in two months, I have every reason to be disappointed, no? I have every reason not to give them further contracts, no? Whatever the size of my company.

That said I agree that market has its priorities. And I prefer quality over quantity and time.

All I would (personnally) have liked to know is some info. Some updates. Because as a base customer, I have the slight impression Dec doesn't care much about his game. WHICH IS WRONG, I know. But I know this because I interact with all wonderful people here and I know the developers are as eager - if not more - than us to see the games out.

But the effect on your average Joe Roleplayer must not be very good.

Now I'm out, I think I said everything I had to express

[Ineti]

It's kind of related to this thread, but I thought I'd mention that the PG has been out since, what, April? and it's just now starting to appear in my local bookstores. I'm in the northern VA area, and there are tons of large chain bookstores here. The game stores had the books ages ago, but the chains are just now starting to get the Trek RPG and the LOTR RPG on shelves.

So, Joe Average might not even realize there was a new Trek game until now.

[StyroFoam Man]

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[RaconteurX]

Speaking from personal experience in the printing industry, printing a book, especially one in which nearly every page has four-color high-resolution graphics, is not a process which is easily interrupted and resumed without considerable down-time. However, printers will sideline a run (or interrupt it at a suitable step in the process, such as pre-cutting, pre-stitching, pre-bindery) if there is a profit incentive to do so.

A modest print-run in the game industry used to be about 5000 books, nowadays it's closer to 3000. A big corporate publishing house typically has small runs in the tens of thousands, larger runs in the hundreds of thousands (it's called mass market for a reason, after all). Large print runs cost much less, mostly due to the low overhead associated with set-up... ten 3000-book runs take more man-hours (and thus cost more) to set up and run than one 30,000-book run and, in some cases, even a 300,000-book run.

It's not even remotely similar to Styro's plastic extrusion example, because the process is more complex.

[StyroFoam Man]

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[Liz Not Beth]

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[Doug Burke]

I've been staying out of this one as I had no new info to add (hopefully in the next couple of days, though). However, one comment in particular comment from this thread prompted a reply as I've heard it before...

Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
I think Dec is lying.

{Net Rep Hat off}
You think Decipher is lying. Wonderful. Just one question. Why? Why would they lie? What are they supposedly covering up?

This is not some plot to keep their product out of customer hands! Decipher is not conspiring to drive its RPG division out of business. I mean, really, guys! Give me a break!

{Net Rep Hat back on}

Seriously, though, when I have more information, I will relay it to you ASAIC.

[Liz Not Beth]

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[StyroFoam Man]

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[Ineti]

You know, I have to think a lot of the griping nowadays about companies missing dates and such is a product of the Internet. Back in the day, when TSR released products, no one knew about it until they hit product catalogs or store shelves.

Now, we have direct contact with the powers that be at the game companies, and some game companies even have people that regularly interact with their customers via forums such as this one, and it's easy to see that as a right.

I think it's a privilege. Doug and Jess and Steve and the others don't have to come here and answer our questions and post updates. They don't have to keep us informed about anything. They could read our questions and ignore them. But they come here, and answer the questions, and do the best they can to allay the fears we raise.

Thank you, guys, for taking the time to do that. I hope the repetitive queries, questions, and rants don't scare you off completely. You guys rock.

/rant

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Liz Not Beth
Simple... They keep pushing back the dates. They are having some kind of major problem, and they don't want to admit it.

I'd rather know, then hear "Really soon now! Any time!" I'd rather hear "Well, we're having problems with Viacom over a couple of points and it could hold us up a few months."

Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
I tell the customers "We had some downtime, the timing on the machine was off. Couldn't send you misformed parts, now could we?"

They'd rather have a reason, not an excuse.

Actually, Decipher has been completely up front with you guys. We have not given excuses. We've given reasons. Allow me to reiterate them.

Narrator's Screen: Was done and sent to the printers quite some time ago. We have had no indication of the reason for the delay on their end, but it is something completely outside our control.

Limited Edition & Enterprise Sourcebook: Has been waiting on image approval from Paramount.

Starfleet Operations Manual: Should be at the printers as we speak.

What really gets under my skin is that, even when reasons are given, they don't seem to be good enough (so what if they're the truth!). And then we get accused of being deliberately deceptive? Well, I'm sorry, but I' not going to pull something out of the most convenient bodily orifice just for a sound bite that apparently won't be accepted either way.