What drives advanced civilizations?

[Majicou]

Not too much detail, 'cause I can't prove my players don't read this board...
But anyway, what might drive an advanced civilization into hiding? Only a small enclave of them now remains.
And we're talking darn advanced--quantum computers, programmable matter, instant wormholes, etc. etc.
Frankly I'm a bit stuck on this episode.

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.

[Antonsb214]

A more advanced, more aggressive civilization, or one that outnumbered them. Rome was eventually conquered by the barbarians. Maybe the survivors hid themselves away. Maybe the descendants don't realize that the danger is past. Maybe they were in suspended animation. If the civilization was in one main solar system, maybe there was a sudden cataclysm, sort of a Star Trek Atlantis legend. Hope this gives you some ideas.

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"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"

[Majicou]

Suspended animation has been part of my concept for a while. Good point about Rome.

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.

[Protius]

Well the Roman Empire was kind of conquered because of that Java/Sumatra eruption but then again, if you didn't watch the PBS special it might seem a bit of an off-chance.

So anyway...

[Flamestrike]

IMHO, Rome was done in by a lot of different things: Spreading itself too thin without adequate means of communication, banishing powerful political disidents to the outer provinces, letting the armies become havens for foreign mercenaries (often with agendas of their own), and the ever-worsening depravity of the government all contributed to its eventual downwall...

But as to why an entire species would go into hiding.... how about something as simple a a communicable disease? One that doesn't effect them, but effects just about everyone else and has disasterous consequences?

Oooo! Here's a thought! What if this "disease" is their advanced nanotechnology? Suppose that it transfers
from person to person like a virus, and when it encounters a "host" it tries to interface with them, but because the nanotech is geared specifically for their own species' unique physiology any attempt to interface fails. The nanos then attempt to reconfigure the incompatable physiology to something that would work... Which naturally kills the new "host".

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Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.

[This message has been edited by Flamestrike (edited 07-04-2001).]

[Phoenix]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Flamestrike:
...how about something as simple a a communicable disease...and has disasterous consequences...</font>

Would Borg nanites count, they would make me go into hiding, quickly and without looking back out into space for a looooooong time.

Phoenix...

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[Flamestrike]

actually, take a look at the edit of my last post... I got an idea just as I hit the button and since I didn't feel like spamming, I edited my own nanotech idea into the other message.

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Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.

[Phoenix]

Squishy minds think alike...I guess...what are we still doing awake, it's what 3:14 there?

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

[spyone]

If you don't mind stealing an idea, the setting from Traveller: The New Era leaps to mind. It was a society that had suffered a vast, paranoia-inducing cataclysm.

Simply put, an important part of their ships were these computer chips that most people didn't realize were a silicate lifeform that could reproduce by imprinting its programming onto other silicon chips.
Then some bright idiot developed a computer virus as a weapon in a major internal conflict. The virus would cause any infected computer to try to destroy itself (like steering the ship into the star).
The virus infected the chips, and could be spread through any kind of communication to other systems. If two ships passed close enough, the chips would infect each other, causing a permenant change that could survive a complete power-down. The virus also mutated into new forms, such as one that tries to kill others instead of itself.
Basicly, the people found their most basic aplliances turning against them. Once the problem was stamped out locally, any contact from outside could re-infect the world. So many of these people got very paranoid about otside contact. (Many also fell to barbarism, and a few tried to rebuild what was lost in a safer form, but that's another story).

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

[qerlin]

The Borg? The Kelvin? Some kind of social upheaval? Catastrophic disaster?

[Paul]

One thing that may drive an advanced civilisation into hiding (or even extiction) is fear and aggression from less advanced civilisations. An example of this from TNG is the Iconians. "Demons of Air and Fire", or something similar, I believed they were referred to as by a number of less-advanced races (TNG ep. Contagion). And it seems that fear of the advanced technology was what drove those races to deploy an orbital bombardment upon the Iconian homeworld.

How likely, given that level of Iconian technology, is it that all Iconians were killed in the attack? Pretty small chance. Where did they go? What did they do? How did they survive? There's something you can explore...

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

[Aedh Rua]

Well, the disease angle could work in reverse, too. Suppose that the race in question were really, really susceptible to the diseases of other races? Even if they had pretty decent medical technology, they might figure it was only a matter of time before they caught something that they couldn't cure.

Also, paranoia might be capable of "infecting" an entire civilization. I really could see an entire race convincing themselves that: 1). There are probably aliens out there, 2). We can't be sure if they are or are not friendly, and 3). By the time we find out, it will be too late, if they are more advanced then we.

If this sounds hard to believe, consider that this is essentially what every "alien invasion" movie is actually saying, as are most of the works of H.P. Lovecraft, though he adds: 4). They will probably be so alien that mere exposure to them will drive us insane!

Two historical examples of exactly this kind of thinking were seen during the 17th century, when China and Japan, two of the world's most advanced cultures, simply cut themselves off from nearly all contact with the outside world. In this case, though, the two countries feared infection by alien ideas more than disease or military conquest.

This kind of fear might also effect a race on a planetary scale, particularly if the culture in question were very regimented, very old, or needed to adapt to unusual environmental conditions which made disruption of the routine dangerous.

For example, a planet similar to the 19th century idea of Mars, ie. dry, cold, most minerals played out, and needing to keep a huge irrigation system running, might very well find that anything at all which disrupts the status quo is simply too dangerous to play with.

After all, in a culture with the kind of thin margins as 19th century "Mars", you will need to maintain rigid population control, rigid control over who enters what occupations, and a really rigid system of metal recycling just to keep things running at all. Given the kinds of mindsets the leadership of this planet might develop, it is not to hard to see them turning away even the most useful foreigners.

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Slan agat!

[This message has been edited by Aedh Rua (edited 07-05-2001).]

[redwood973]

1) Rejection of thier super-tech lives.
2) Tech reached such an advanced state that their world could no longer suport it; the resulting collapse of their society led to the introversion.
3) A war with an equal power devistated both worlds, the survivors seek protection in thier introversion while they try to re-build their society.

[Majicou]

I suspect I'll need to provide a couple further details... these hidden aliens have been lying in wait (in stasis actually) for quite a long time, and they (or some automated systems) have been periodically sending out probes to scout out starfaring civilizations in the area (they are located in the Neutral Zone, cleverly camouflaged so neither the Feds or the Romulans will take much interest.)
But anyway, now they feel that one or both of these groups may be ready to share in the benefits their advanced tech provides. Since there are very few of them left, they've essentially given up trying to control territory or anything and instead are merely trying to ensure their own posterity.
So, technology gone wrong doesn't seem a viable option in this case.
If they were in a war with a civilization of similar sophistication, it might be that this race that I'm dealing with was decimated, but their enemies were wiped out completely, and so the survivors retreated to a single location and went into stasis, while having their computers begin the long search for their would-be successors...

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.

[Majicou]

True--the Aldeans. I can't recall what drove them to do it. To the Encyclopedia!

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.