D20 Star Trek by Decipher as OGL, Comments? Ross?

[ImperialOne]

First of all, there is no greater supporter for CODA and Decipher Trek. However, I am a gamer first and foremost and want to have viable and well-supported games (though a well-written PG and NG are a vital foundation).

Is there any speculation that after the raft of Decipher Trek products coming out are released from the prison known as "the printers," TPTB at Decipher (i.e. Warren Holland) might consider producing a D20 Star Trek rules set utilizing the OGL? I think this would be OK according to the terms of their license with Viacom (parent of Paramount), and would tap into the base of D20-aware gamers for the Star Trek universe (two large bases of population, hmnnn). Decipher need not do much more to support D20 Trek, it could even refer players to the Decipher Trek porducts for sourcebook/game aid reference.

This move wouldn't be unprecedented... SJ Games produced GURPS rules for White Wolf products in the past, and IIRC, they were pretty good. I must admit, the thought of D20 Star Trek is a bit unnerving, but with the writers who brought us LUG Trek and Decipher Trek, it could hardly go wrong.

In addition, I believe Christian, Ross and other from the old LUG vrew were working on a D20 Star Trek after WOTC acquired LUG. I don't know how far along this project was, perhaps Ross could comment?

[KillerWhale]

I believe they would have no commercial interest in releasing a product that would be directly concurrential of their own... IMHO, it will never happen

[ImperialOne]

Well, since it would be Decipher doing the product, it would be an unabashed attempt to capture the D20 crowd... many of whom already know what Star Trek is (duh) and don't want to learn a new rules set no matter how similar (I never said D20 people were the brightest... that would be the GURPS player ).

This move wouldn't be unprecedented, a small publisher like Holistic Design (creators of the Fading Suns campaign setting) has done their own RPG and products as well as a D20 version (of Fading Suns) which has opened their non-D20 products to a vast audience for an admittedly niche game.

Charles

[Ineti]

Um...wouldn't releasing a d20 version of Trek sort of nullify all the work that went into creating the Coda version? It would be like Decipher saying, "We tried to make our own system, but we're going to go with d20 since everyone and their mother knows d20." I don't see that happening. Decipher has a great thing in Coda.

Originally posted by ImperialOne
In addition, I believe Christian, Ross and other from the old LUG vrew were working on a D20 Star Trek after WOTC acquired LUG. I don't know how far along this project was, perhaps Ross could comment?

Um...I would think that if they were working on a d20 Trek, they took the knowledge they gained from their time with WotC and turned their notes into what became Coda.

Besides, if you listen to some of the people on this board, Coda is practically d20 anyhow. I don't subscribe to that, but to each his or her own.

[ImperialOne]

However, the rank and file rpg player out there (you know who they are, the are generally younger, they don't hang around RPG message boards, and they only know D20) is needed to keep the setting viable. What if one had a great game system (i.e. CODA), and no one played it (for whatever reason).

The LUG experience should show that good rules, even when supported by followup product (and LUG did make excellent supplements, no matter if they were a bit behind their promised release dates) does NOT guarantee success with regarding sales and popularity.

Do you remeber the "Long Night" when there was no game system for Trek that was actively supported (Post-LUG, pre-Decipher). It wasn't very long ago, but my memory is disntinct. While we the hardcore Trekkers may play with our old FASA/LUG rules, many waited for Decipher. But, how many previous FASA/LUG players went to play something lese (gasp) or returned to try Decipher Trek?

Trust me, I love CODA/Decipher Trek, and believe it to be the one best system for Trek roleplaying. I don't want to beat a horse, but D20 can be done right for Trek, and bring a vast number of players to the CODA product (i.e. supplements).

Charles

[Ineti]

Originally posted by ImperialOne
However, the rank and file rpg player out there (you know who they are, the are generally younger, they don't hang around RPG message boards, and they only know D20) is needed to keep the setting viable. What if one had a great game system (i.e. CODA), and no one played it (for whatever reason).[/B]

Perhaps the rank and file players should try something new rather than stick with the "tried and true."

Decipher has a great game system in Coda, and lots of people are playing it, in both Trek and LOTR. Perhaps Decipher'll be able to add another license or their own IP to the Coda family of RPGs.

My guess is that a lot of gamers are resisting it as a knee-jerk response--"It's not d20; it must suck." D20 is a good game system, but it's not the be-all and end-all of game systems. It doesn't do all the things I'd like a game system to do. Before Coda came out, I tinkered heavily with d20, mutating it into a "best I can do" version. Coda came along and I all but dropped d20 in favor of it.

Um...sorry about that rant. Back to the topic!

I don't want to beat a horse, but D20 can be done right for Trek, and bring a vast number of players to the CODA product (i.e. supplements).

Why would someone buy a d20 Trek product, then buy a Coda product they would have to use conversion rules to make work?

I just don't see Trek fitting into the d20 system. Coda is a much more robust and interesting system, IMO. I'm sure you could do a homebrew d20 Trek game, but I don't see Decipher doing it as long as they hold the Trek RPG license.

[KillerWhale]

However, the rank and file rpg player out there (you know who they are, the are generally younger, they don't hang around RPG message boards, and they only know D20) is needed to keep the setting viable.

Ahem ahem. D20 exists since - what, 3 years? RPGs have been fine and sold since a lot longer time. D20 is not needed at all to keep the setting viable.

Making D20 Trek would be commercial nonsense IMO - why bother developing a superior (IMO) system if it is to use D20 later?

No, what could be a wise move would be to develop some OGL parallel for CODA.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by KillerWhale
No, what could be a wise move would be to develop some OGL parallel for CODA.

I second that! But I'd like to see something added in there where there would be an entity (committee or something) that ensured the quality of the products released using Coda. Some of the d20 third party products are just not that good.

[KillerWhale]

I'd like to see something added in there where there would be an entity (committee or something) that ensured the quality of the products released using Coda.

Excellent idea on paper! Although I don't know if it would be feasible... It would require some people to proofread this, people who basically wouldn't produce a lot of money. And that may slow the creative energies who just don't want to bother having their stuff re-read. Mm, I think that should remain really open if we want Coda to have the same distribution as D20.

oooh, I'm so way off topic

[Ineti]

But if we want the quality of third party Coda products to be as high as Decipher's, some sort of checks and balances would need to be in place.

It wouldn't require a group of people to proofread it - that's the job of the third party company and their production process. All the "approval committee" would do would be to look at the near-final product and determine if they wanted to let it have the Coda symbol of approval or whatnot on it.

Menaing, say Coda did an OGL sort of thing, and a third party company wanted to do a sourcebook on mating rituals through the Star Trek universe, chock full of cheesecake imagery and adult content text. If someone didn't look at it beforehand, the company could slap a Coda symbol on it and attempt to sell it. That would likely reflect poorly on Decipher (partly because some gamers see a d20 logo and think "WotC published that." Not everyone knows about the OGL).

And that may slow the creative energies who just don't want to bother having their stuff re-read.

Well, a company that doesn't want to bother having their stuff re-read is a company not serious about putting out good product. I can forgive the occassional typo, but significant errors will eventually translate into a significant loss of sales.

[ImperialOne]

To turn CODA into a D20 business model with some kind of OGL will simply draw comparisons from most gamers as an attempt to emulate D20 (and we've been through that).

The success of the D20 OGL model has been allowing third parties to produce material that a priamry game compnay (i.e. WOTC, Decipher, SJ Games, White Wolf) can't do because it is NOT a profitable model (i.e. producing adventures, thats why Decipher makes sourcebooks). The quality varies by virtue of this system (as good as Alderac or as bad as...). While there are no checks and balances, companies producing bad product will eventually not survive due to poor sales. Darwinian, yes, but true.

D20 Trek could only be done by Decipher since the Trek property belongs to Viacom (who owns Paramount) and thus OGL is not truly applicable (i.e. do you see OGL content for WOTC's Star Wars RPG... I think not). I really don't see its development by Decipher as taking anything away from CODA... simply a smart business decision to ensnare more gamers into the Star Trek brand (including CCGs).

By the way, RPGs have sold for a long time, yes, I played D&D back in the late 1970s when it was still in its "first" edition. However, the RPG hobby had stagnated and declined for quite sometime, the D20 model for the last three years have revived this sector considerably (trust me, as much as I'd want it to be, CODA is not driving these sales, even though sales are considered acceptable?). One might shudder to think where the industry (and all the "Me-Too: companies that produce D20 OGL product ) would be today without it .

Charles

[Ineti]

Originally posted by ImperialOne
I really don't see its development by Decipher as taking anything away from CODA... simply a smart business decision to ensnare more gamers into the Star Trek brand (including CCGs).

Nah. All Decipher needs to do to ensnare more gamers into the Trek brand is to run demoes and get the product out there. They made a good step towards searching for new RPG Product Champions. Also, they're running RPG demoes at DecipherCon this weekend.

And we, the players and narrators that are already hooked, need to get the word out that this is a great game and a great system. We don't need no stinkin' d20.

[AllenS]

I think if Decipher wanted to do a d20 Star Trek, they would have done so from the start.

And Decipher I'm sure has reasons not to want to put money in Wizards' pockets.

CODA is a fine system on it'w own and if properly publicized, could have a good shot at being a popular system.

You want really goos D20 sci-fi? Check out Traveller d20 from QLI. THAT is a d20 science fiction game!

As for Trek..make mine CODA.

Allen

[Sawyer II]

If you feel so strongly about a d20 Trek, start working on it. Created a thread herein the forums and make a netbook out of it. D20 Trek won't sell any better than CODA Trek. But if you design the system, those who want to play will help. Just don't expect to make any money from it, or get help from Decipher or WOTC.

[Doug Burke]

Decipher has no plans to make a D20 version of Star trek, nor any plans to create some sort of Coda OGL (COGL? ).