Universal Translator Questions

[erhershman]

I have been having some difficulty understanding how the Universal Translator works. According to LUG templates, all characters learn how to speak Fed Standard at Starfleet Academy. I find it hard to believe that they teach every single alien cadet how to speak it. It says nothing about it in SFA boxed set, for example.
But if they don't learn to speak standard, then how would they understand each other if the translator broke down?
Can anyone clear this up?

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"Please rush me my portable walrus polishing kit, eight super brushes guaranteed to clean even the stickiest seabound mammals. Yes I am over 18, even though my IQ isn't."

[OMNIBUS]

Well, I would assume that by the 23rd and 24th centuries that Fed. Standard is taught to most at a young age on long standing UFP worlds. Not as a the primary language, but as a secondary one. It's people from newly joined world where their first exposure to learning Fed. Standard may be later in life. In Starfleet, I would assume that nearly all speak it fluently and those that don't would at least be able to speak it well enough to at communicate effectively without the translator. You know....With a heavy accent

[qerlin]

As a linguist, I've always found the universal translator a silly idea. Part of the problem: different languages don't use the same words and sometime not even the same sentence structure, even within a linguistic group.

Add to this the problem of context. Different races from different planets are going to have completely differing contexts, sometimes down to root concepts like 'I' or 'body' or 'head', etc... Aquatic creatures, space-born creatures, etc. are all going to have radically different ways of viewing their universe -- even different sense reception will cause a huge change in the way the think and percieve information.

In actuality, the translator, working from a massive catalogue of known languages would provide quick translation -- but it would take hours of listening to the new language for the device to have even an inkling of the basic sentence structure and commonly used concepts. If the language in question has a sharply different contextual or perceptual base, and is unrelated to any known form of communication, the time frame for successfully saying "Hi. Please don't shoot us." could be phenomenally long.

I hope this is of some use to the other narrators out there. If you don't like my observations, or find it gets in the way of the story, remind the players of the ultimate universal translator, i.e. the TV station is broadcasting this in your native language.

[pesterfield]

Has it ever been explicitly stated Federation Standard=English?

Has anyone made FS be Vulcan, Andorian or some other language? Maybe even French, Spanish, German, etc.

I don't think a short language course would take up that much time out of the Academy studies, besides you can sleep learn or learn chemically.

[OMNIBUS]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pesterfield:
Has it ever been explicitly stated Federation Standard=English?</font>

English is the most logical deduction. "Why?" you may ask. If we assume Captain Kirk spoke Fed. Standard (No comm badge universal Translator which is always on)then it is Khan who explicitly state, "English....." when he awakes and hears Kirk's words.

[Paul]

Makes sense, OMNIBUS.

Kahn has been asleep/in stasis for nearly 300 years when the Enterprise picks him up (for the first time). He therefore would have absolutely NO knowledge of the Federation, Federation Standard, Vulcans, Andorians, etc... Yet, when he hears the Enterprise crew speak, he understands them and converses with them. Kirk is a simple farm lad from Idaho, USA...it stands that he would speak English/Federation Sandard as his primary language.

You can out two and two together here, folks...

It may not have been stated canonically...but it stands to reason by canon events.

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"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)

[qerlin]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pesterfield:
Has it ever been explicitly stated Federation Standard=English?

Has anyone made FS be Vulcan, Andorian or some other language? Maybe even French, Spanish, German, etc.

I don't think a short language course would take up that much time out of the Academy studies, besides you can sleep learn or learn chemically.</font>

(In a rich midwestern American accent) Of course Federation Standard's English...and American English at that. Just look at all those Americans -- hell even Spock sounds like an American. It's an American show.

(Bad Russian accent) English? Nooooo...Russian. Star Trek was invented by a little old lady in Leningrad.

(Bad Maurice Chevalier) Of course it's French! Star Trek is broadcast in French. And the FRench language is the most beautiful and poetic of the languages. French is Federation Standard!

(Midwestern American) If that's so, frog-boy, why do all the Frenchmen sound like Shakespearian actors?

(Translated from Vulcan) This conversation can serve no logical purpose.

[Cybrludite]

But why English as Fed Standard? (In setting logic, rather than the real world "It's an american show" reason)It's a mix of Anglo-Saxon and Middle French, with a huge amount of loan words. Spellings are inconsistant, and there's lots of basic core words that sound alike. (To, too, & two, There & they're, weather & whether, here & hear, which & witch)Japanese would be a much better choice, if you drop the kanji. All spellings are phonetic. Only weird pronunciation issue I've run across in my admittiedly brief study is pronouncing "Desu" as "Des". No issues with tonality, like in most Chinese "dialects". (Really like calling French, Spanish, Italian, & English dialects of Latin, but that's another rant)If they were to drop the 1,984 official kanji, and just stick with the kana sylibarys. (SP?)I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's a better choice than English.

Jon

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If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!

[Majicou]

And yet English, despite its oddities, is one of the most international languages on Earth today. Although it has many varieties, English is often a lingua franca (now there's an ironic phrase) between groups who speak no other common tongue.
And since Earth is the governmental center of the Federation, why should English not continue to do as it has done, and spread through the Alpha Quadrant?

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.

[Cybrludite]

English is widely spoken today because it was spoken by two superpower, one past, and one current.For that matter, the UK in their prime, and the US in ours, were the top superpowers of their days. I'm not saying that it's unlikely that English would be the language most associated with Earth, I'm just saying that there's better choices available. And much worse ones, too... I'm told that in Cantonese, for example, the tone you use can make the difference between saying "Thank you" and "I love you".

Jon


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If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!

[Majicou]

However, just because there are better choices, that doesn't mean they'll be chosen.

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"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand." -Anon.

[Michael Brinkhues]

Esperanto!

I mean, there is a "universal world language" that has been developed for about a century and has roots in most european languages (assuming the USA speaks english - some brits still deny this )

Has enough british in it for a "super intellect" like can to consider it "english" when waking up and understand it fluently.


Michael

[qerlin]

"assuming the USA speaks english - some brits still deny this"

Gotta see 'Snatch'. There's a great line from Dennis Farina: "Does anyone here speak English. I mean this country f***ing spawned the language..."