LUG - Psi

[Xavier]

I never understood why the LUG gamedesigner made the psi powers splitted. I never liked this, on the first point. The second point was that friend of mine that kept saying that if I changed it or added people with telekinesis as an official power wouldnt be startrek...

I really never liked both things. Anyway, I never understood why these themes were not so much explored as they could. Why humans would not develop a psionic society like the vulkans? Why not? In the true history of mankind you have lots of psionic abordage from the very beggining, like witches, ninjas, shaolin monks, atlanteans legends and even Christ have shown his display of psionics making his miracles. Today, in India, Sathya Sai Baba goes around materializing things, or so those who saw told me.

I dont accept this cold necessity people have to have proofs. A proof is as good as one's ableness to believe it. Anyone can take a pict from something and anyone can say it was edited with a computer...

I prefer to see the psi skills like power/specialization. What do you think? I would like to discuss with inteligent people that want to clarify the whole idea, not those rude people that split nonsense.

Im not angered, if I sound so, Im asleep...

Hugs!

[Owen E Oulton]

Well, the game is structured to duplicate the Star Trek TV shows and movies, in which it's been established that full-blown psionics (i.e. true telepathy and such) are indeed known among Humans, but are not terribly common. This is reflected in the default Attribute of 0 for Psi in Humans, but you will also note that it is possible for a Human to have a 5 Psionics attribute - you just have to pay the points to buy it.

As for the splitting into separate skills with no specialisations, I'm not sure why they did that - it seems to have been a "game balance" issue. I personally think it makes sense for there to be a Telepathy skill with Projective and Receptive specialties. There would have to be specific species/culture specific specialisations which would not normally be part of the overall skill, such as Mind Meld. Perhaps the best way to do this would be to have a Species Psionics skill with particular specialisations. An example might be:
* Vulcan Telepathy (Receptive Telepathy) (Projective Telepathy) (Mind Meld)
* Betazoid Telepathy (Receptive Telepathy) (Projective Telepathy) (Receptive Empathy)

The problem with this is that it makes Psionics a lot easier to acquire, as was being discussed way back in the Dawn of Time (i.e. late last millennium, when the game had just come out). The solution might be to require anyone whose species has a 0 basic Psionics attribute to buy a Psionically Acyive +3 advantage. This would allow an individual to buy psi skills. They would not need it to have a Psi above 0, just to buy the skills. This reflects the "ESP" potential of Gary Mitchell and Elizabeth Dehner in Where No Man Has Gone Before, as well as the examples from Earthly history and myth you cite (aside from Christ and the Atlanteans who, in Trek-style stories, would either be what are known as POBs or YAGLAs; and advanced aliens, respectively).

Of course, you'd still be stuck with the normal species attribute maximums, making it a waste of points for a Ferengi or other Psi-blind species to buy the Advantage.

Note: POB and YAGLA are gaming/fannish terms for extremely powerful, generally non-corporeal entities like Q or Trelane.
* POB = Pesky Omnipotent Being
* YAGLA = Yet Another God-Like Alien

[Dan Gurden]

As an Aside.

Telekinesis has indeed been shown on Star Trek. However that was a single occurance in over 30 years of production.
The Darwin colony created a race of Genetically Modified human children who exhibited strong Psi Triats and in the group, 2 children can clearly be seen playing Trek Chess using TK to maneuver pieces around the board.

However this is also likely to be an incredibly rare talent also, moreso when you consider that the children of the Darwin colony are cut off from the rest of the universe for theirs and its safety.

As Owen said, the game was designed to match that of the TV shows, thus rare human Psi's are possible, and the focus of power does seem to core around Empathy and Telepathy.

Your Mileage may Vary, but I recommend widening your search to include other Sci Fi genres for ideas.

As for the branching powers, they make sense to me. To have some of the secondary abilities a character should indeed develop the main one first.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Dan Gurden
Telekinesis has indeed been shown on Star Trek. However that was a single occurance in over 30 years of production.

Actually, that wouold be second appearance, Dan. Don't forget "Plato's Stepchildren" from TOS.

Man, I'm old...

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
Well, the game is structured to duplicate the Star Trek TV shows and movies, in which it's been established that full-blown psionics (i.e. true telepathy and such) are indeed known among Humans, but are not terribly common. This is reflected in the default Attribute of 0 for Psi in Humans, but you will also note that it is possible for a Human to have a 5 Psionics attribute - you just have to pay the points to buy it.

Ding, ding! And here we get to the heart of the matter--there is nothing stopping you (Xavier) from raising a character's starting Psi/Edges and picking up Psionic skills.

Psionic humans are not forbidden in Icon Trek. (So I'm a little confused as to what exactly your complaint is.)

[Xavier]

Hey, Owen, thanks a lot for the idea! So, the psionics skill will be one different for each race then? It really sounds interesting! And why not something like:

telepathy(vulkan receptive)(vulkan projective)
(human receptive)(betazoid projective)

What about this configuration?

And Don, my complaint was more about one of my friends with whom I divide our trek rpg universe, that he doesnt like to change the rules. Actually, I do change them a lot if I feel it will work better for me and really dont care much about -the series shows so and so- idea. I like to try different ways, just that, and them when I hear that one or other dont like it because startrek is so and so and making it different will not be startrek, I get annoied... After all, Im gamemastering and wasting time I could be with my wife, my cats, my videogame, my yoga, my I dont know... I know you know what Im talking about.

I too like to point out the incoherencies I see, like, if the romulans descend from the vulkans, why they have bony fronts where vulkans have not? No one told me why till now, and I dont see why every damn alien have to have a klingon somewhat like face, why horns or protuberances or any ugly bone bettwin the eyes. They are good on klingos, but why so many? Ferengi dont have them and yet are so cool with theyr four lobs. I think someone spent all theyr imagination department on klingon face design and just kept copying them after.

Anyway, thank you people, thank you a lot! It helped me!

My 2 cents.

[Owen E Oulton]

"So, the psionics skill will be one different for each race then? It really sounds interesting! And why not something like:

telepathy(vulkan receptive)(vulkan projective)
(human receptive)(betazoid projective)

What about this configuration?"

Hmmmm... I don't think that'd work - The point of splitting them into species-specific skills sets was so that a Vulcan wouldn't necessarily know Betazoid techniques by default. Not all races will have a species-specific skill set - species with a default attribute of 0 may simply use basic skills like so:

* Telepathy (Projective Telepathy) (Receptive Telepathy)
* Empathy (Projective Empathy) (Receptive Empathy)
* Telekinesis (Levitation) (Manipulation)
* Remote Sensing (Clairaudience) (Clairvoyance)
* Matter Manipulation (Thermokinesis) (Cryokinesis) (Disruption)

BTW, the first use of telekinesis (in Trek, that is) was in Where No Man Has Gone Before, where Mitchell summoned a water glass. He later used a cable to strangle his guard.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
BTW, the first use of telekinesis (in Trek, that is) was in Where No Man Has Gone Before, where Mitchell summoned a water glass. He later used a cable to strangle his guard.

Funny thing is, as i went to this thread this morning, I was thinking I had forgotten to mention the Mitchell and Dehner's abilities in that episode.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Xavier
And Don, my complaint was more about one of my friends with whom I divide our trek rpg universe, that he doesnt like to change the rules.

And my point is more to the fact that you don't need to. Icon allows you, as a human, to raise your Psi score, pick up the edges, and gain mental powers--provided you're willing to spend the points to do so.

Also, as far as TK in Star Trek (and Icon), didn't that get introduced in the Players' Guide? (No books with me.) As others have pointed out TK has existed onscreen.

Perhaps I'm getting stumped by the language barrier but I'm not seeing what the problem is. :shrug:

[Captain Blake]

FWIW Don, it is. Telekinesis is in the PG, along with a couple other powers.

If you have that sourcebook, then you can, as a human, buy up your PSI score, and add the TK power, and away you go.

Also, Dr Miranda Jones in TOS was a psychic Human. Had telepathic powers. Used them on Spock to make him forget his visor so he looked at the Medusan, so they must have been pretty potent.

I for one, don't have an issue with the way Icon added the Psi powers.

In TOS, Spock's "Vulcan Mind Powers" were the Deus ex Machina that Technobabble was to Voyager.

In the hands of a cunning player, they can easily be that in your game. Having lots of psi powers to choose from, and all of them separately bought helps keep the psi from dominating the game.

Alex