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Thread: Holography and various problems

  1. #1

    Holography and various problems

    After seeing Lifesigns (Voyager episode with the Vidiian doctor who spends a few days as an hologram) and a Twilight Zone episode about a scientist who has created a basic android out of his deceased son's brain patterns, I was left to wonder. Wouldn't people with problems still considered disabilities (by 24th century standards) who received treatments helped by holography to ease their suffering (I presume it wouldn't be existing before Dr. Zimmerman's breakthroughs in the late 2360's). Wouldn't people knowledgeable in programming who have lost a dear person be proner to crisis of Holographic Dependance. What about a group of religious zealots claiming that the energy state of an hologram, non-corporeal as it is (they can be corporeal or non-corporeal as they see fit) as the real state of higher existence, maybe after the analysis of the Mobile Emitter, the real immortality prophesised by the prophets of ancient times...

    Nothing really concrete(not the one for buildings, I don't know how it translates from french), just a few ideas to ponder and develop...

  2. #2
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    Just the sort of problems that I like. I believe that now holography approaches sentience, this kind of problems will arise more and more in the ST universe. That's exactly the kind of thing I'll tackle in my campaign with Carsi.

    You may add a twist: remember the unease of the Federation when it comes to artificial lifeforms and cyborgs because of the Eugenic Wars? Is the UFP really tolerant as it claims?

    Just another thought

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  3. #3
    Damn, I should check what I write more often

    Wouldn't people with problems still considered disabilities (by 24th century standards) who received treatments helped by holography to ease their suffering (I presume it wouldn't be existing before Dr. Zimmerman's breakthroughs in the late 2360's).

    the end is lacking: "be tempted to remain as holograms"

  4. #4
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    Mmm this actually makes me wonder if Captain Pike's chair equivalent in the 24th century wouldn't be a hologram.

    Given that the Mobile Emitter isn't indigenous to this era, from what I heard (didn't see VOY past season 2... ), I think that, before it, being holographic would be considered more like an hindrance. After all, you'd be confined to specifically equipped areas, and dependant on the holoemitters to exist...

    Now assuming the Mobile Emitter technology can be duplicated, yeah, that would make it more tempting - and after all, why not send holographic replicas of the crew on away missions and so on ? But now we're entering the questions of cybernetics enhancements and the like....
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  5. #5
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    Here is an idea ...
    Star Trek: Blade Runner
    Captain Alexandra Polanski
    CO, USS Archangel (flag of 7th Fleet, RRTF operations)

  6. #6
    Would the holographic reality prove more addictive than the Real one?

    Well it always seemed that way when they ran this story in TNG, DS9 and Voyager... But thanks to the councellor and the real friends, the character always came out again!

    Its been done with Reg Barclay (TWICE), the kid who lost his mother (although to be fair, that wasn't a hologram), Riker, Nog, The Doc... So I guess Holo-addiction is quite common as thats quite a good selection...

    But what could be done to spice the concept, to give it a new edge?
    DanG/Darth Gurden
    The Voice of Reason and Sith Lord

    “Putting the FUNK! back into Dysfunctional!”

    Coming soon. The USS Ganymede NCC-80107
    "Ad astrae per scientia" (To the stars through knowledge)

  7. #7
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    This one is simple Dan ...

    Run an entire season of the campaign ... and at the end make players leave the holodeck. Tell them that all that has happen was a simple simulation that they experienced and for better reality they choose to forget that it was a simulation in the first place. Because they [insert trek techbubble or medbubble]

    Just like the real life at the moment, you see I am actually a Starfleet Captain on holidays in holodeck, ... now if I could find the way to end program and get on with the 'real life'



    Ahh well, back to Star Trek Armada 2, I have a fleet to run you know

    Kind Regards
    Daniel
    Captain Alexandra Polanski
    CO, USS Archangel (flag of 7th Fleet, RRTF operations)

  8. #8
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    Polanski, I wouldn't advise you to try that "it was all a dream" idea. I was in a campaign once when the GM did that. It really ticked off all the players when we worked for months to complete a quest and then he told us none of it had been real. That took away all of our sense of accomplishment.

    Arrgh, concrete has the same deeper meaning in English as French.
    + &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;<

    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. Psalm 144:1

  9. #9
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    Though this "none of it was real" gave me an idea... the fact that all was a dream could be what some other people want the PCs to believe (like Ship in a bottle and the other show where Riker was in a psychiatric hospital).
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  10. #10
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    Sarge:

    I hate holodeck episodes ...
    I hate holobased AIs ...
    Not because they are a bad idea (I think the idea is actually quite neat)
    But because in my campaigns things are acomplished by blood, sweat and tears of living being...

    Saying that, in my campaign I use holodeck for simulation or entertainment...

    Kind Regards
    Daniel
    Captain Alexandra Polanski
    CO, USS Archangel (flag of 7th Fleet, RRTF operations)

  11. #11
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    We're working with a similar thing. Don't much care for the 'sentient hologram' idea -- but the program behind the hologram, yes. In our 'verse, the ship recently rescued 'people' from a supernova; to stay alive (they didn;t know of other lifeforms out there), they had encoded themselves by destructive uploading into computer software that mimiced the person. these programs, the questions is, are they alive or not, sentient or not?

    They've been taken back to the Galor Daystrom Annex where they are living in a computer-based reality, but can interface with the real world through the holodeck. The questions: what are their rights or do they even have them? What laws should govern their actions?
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  12. #12
    The 'none of it was real' schtick can work. But should be limited. The game Sarge was in where there was a major quest that turned out to be unreality is a bit of a let down... Although characters should still learn from those experiences.

    I got the impression that Sarges game was in a high fantasy setting, and if it had been me, I probably would have made it a dream, and then just as the players felt let down somehow let them know that the events in the dream were still accomplishments, and that they had simply helped on another plane...

    In trek, a whole campaign as a holodeck training exercise would have even less power...

    But theres nothing wrong with a single game. Start of in the thick of things, just as things go wrong... Now they face a worst case scenario, guards attacking from all sides, characters slaughtered left and right... be merciless...

    And then upon the last characters death, hopefully with a completed mission... Have the holodeck fade and a senior cofficer advise them that the mission they are about to go on had better go better...

    (Whether you run the real mission is another matter, but it could save you from having to write next weeks game too!
    DanG/Darth Gurden
    The Voice of Reason and Sith Lord

    “Putting the FUNK! back into Dysfunctional!”

    Coming soon. The USS Ganymede NCC-80107
    "Ad astrae per scientia" (To the stars through knowledge)

  13. #13
    Along the original thread line(Warning - Technobable Rich), one of my wife's characters (Human, enlisted engineer) has, in her spare time, been working on a 'In case of Death, please activate' holo-program, where she has repeatedly backed up her memory engrams, overlayed on her personality template and image.

    The theroy is if she dies (heaven forbid), the character can return as a holographic character on the ship.

    I'm still debating with myself on -
    A) I'm going to even allow it to work. She does have some impressive (icon) skills in the areas of computer: programming 3(5)? , systems engineering: Computer and holodeck 4(5), and theroitical engineering: AI's 1(3)?.
    B) What the ethical and legal out look on the subject would be from the offical stand point in the UFP (current game date: December 28th, 2372).
    Phoenix...

    "I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity,
    but maybe we should just remove all the safety lables and let nature take it's course"

    "A Place For Everything & Nothing In It's Place"

  14. #14
    I'd see it as possibly working, but effectively limiting her to the Holodeck, holographic laboratories and sickbay, unless the ship's hologrid was extended to allow her more freedom. (if on deep space exploration, it's even harder to find a dock for the two or three months refit... And will SF allow a ship paralyzed because of this).

    As of 2372, it appears that many people use loopholes in the Data case to deny sentient AIs not fitting the android category the rights of a sentient person (I personally twist Life line canon in one aspect, it's not SF command but a few individual captains/sector admirals who did it, at a time when they had more important things to take care about, and it slowly faded out of the to-do list of after the war as the billions death and the destruction kept increasing, and people like the editor in Photons be Free willing to use these loopholes to keep credits/latinum coming in, but I do not discard it readily, Starfleet has enough stains on the flag after the Dominion War, I prefer to keep this one to individuals' reputations), and to make it a harder case, the lifesign situation could repeat itself, if the character is in a state of near-death, she will possibly remain alive, but maimed, with permanent injuries and handicaps, and the like, now it becomes an Hippocratic Oath case for her ship's doctor.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Phoenix
    Along the original thread line(Warning - Technobable Rich), one of my wife's characters (Human, enlisted engineer) has, in her spare time, been working on a 'In case of Death, please activate' holo-program, where she has repeatedly backed up her memory engrams, overlayed on her personality template and image.

    The theroy is if she dies (heaven forbid), the character can return as a holographic character on the ship.
    A friend of mine had a similar idea...

    The concept was that his engineer had been doing some work on an Emergency Engineering Hologram, along the lines of the EMH, so he had combined a copy of the EMH with his own personnel file, giving an exact duplicate of himself.

    This was a concept study, thus the self conceit, he originally had no intention of inflicting a mad Australian Surfing fanatic on all of Starfleet.

    However before he could refine the personality to something that Dr Zimmerman wouldn't throw out of the window in seconds. A massive core explosion occured, leaving engineering flooding with Coolant fluid. Managing to help his engineers escape the chief found himself facing certain death and no way of saving the ship.

    Well. One way. And so he activated his EEH, who watched his biological progenitor disintegrate in Coolant and then proceeded to fix the ship...

    Thats the point that the character was written to, and the game-play would cover the ethical concerns... Hmmm. That could also suit Perrryyy's 'Human Exploration' thread...
    DanG/Darth Gurden
    The Voice of Reason and Sith Lord

    “Putting the FUNK! back into Dysfunctional!”

    Coming soon. The USS Ganymede NCC-80107
    "Ad astrae per scientia" (To the stars through knowledge)

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