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Thread: Coda starship rules-now and then

  1. #16
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    Originally posted by Antonsb214
    Those Codes are modifiers to the different types of maneuvers you can perform with the ship. C is for Command, H is for Helm, and T is for Tactical.
    Are these combat maneuvers? If so, what's teh difference between a Command and a Helm maneuver?

    Tchau!
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  2. #17
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    They are modifiers to combat manuvers. the manuvers themselves list which modifier is apropriate

  3. #18
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    Originally posted by AllenS
    The Starship rules for CODA are the best space combat rules for any science fiction game I have ever seen.

    Allen
    I love you Allen, and I want to have your babies.
    Game On!

  4. #19
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    Originally posted by Fred
    Are these combat maneuvers? If so, what's teh difference between a Command and a Helm maneuver?

    Tchau!
    Technically, the difference is that Helm maneuvers require the Flight Control skill, while Command maneuvers require the tactics skill.

    Conceptually, Helm maneuvers involve positioning the ship in relation to the enemy. Command maneuvers are tactical decisions that can involve any of the other stations. Anyone can decide to move very quickly at the opponent, firing all the while, and zoom past him out of danger. But anyone not trained in starship tactics will pick the wrong time to do it, and end up flying into a barrage of fire from the oppposing ship. Therefore the Commander uses his tactics skill, not to figure out how to do a Fast Attack, but when the ship is in the right tactical position for it to work.
    Game On!

  5. #20
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    Cool

    Originally posted by AllenS
    The Starship rules for CODA are the best space combat rules for any science fiction game I have ever seen.
    I love Allen tooooooo!


  6. #21

    Thumbs up Coda rules are #1!

    I love the Coda system and so do my players. Before this we used a crossover of d20 Star Wars to play out starship combat, a sort of d20 Star Trek. But since I've gotten the Coda Rules I have been very impressed. Next to d20 Star Wars these are the BEST rules on the market!!!
    "Target all your firepower on the nearest Federation starship!" Yoda, Episode II

  7. #22
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    My feelings

    I do not like the starship rules for coda. I think that they are not as good as those from Spacedock.

    One of my major quarrels is structure points being based solely on size. There is no consideration of hull composition.

    Second, it has no power allocation system, which I really don't like. Power allocation is one of the fun parts of starship combat.

    Third, they have the torpedo strengths mixed up. A quantum torpedo, even Mark I, should be stronger than that.

    Fourth, all shields have the same strength. Plus they don't have grids.

    And finally, why are the weapons all grouped into one? All phasers give one penetration value, all torpedoes of a certain type, I mean, come on.

    Anyways, I've ranted long enough. If anyone has a starship creation/combat system that addresses these details, I'd love to see it.

  8. #23
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    Re: My feelings

    Part of me says "why bother," but the fact that you've spewed this misinformation, now, twice, I feel obligated to respond.
    Originally posted by Lonoto
    I do not like the starship rules for coda. I think that they are not as good as those from Spacedock.
    Then use Spacedock! There is nothing stopping you from porting Spacedock into your RPG--the skill tests involved are almost identical.

    It's worth mentioning that if you prefer Spacedock then you have totally missed the point of the combat/construction system that comes with the RPG. We are not shooting for a tactical-level space-sim that requires you to stop your game, juggle tedious amounts of numbers, and spend hours resolving what takes place on-screen in a matter of seconds.
    One of my major quarrels is structure points being based solely on size. There is no consideration of hull composition.
    For our purposes a hull is a hull, however it's worth mentioning that the "Starships" sourcebook does introduce new variations on hulls.
    Second, it has no power allocation system, which I really don't like. Power allocation is one of the fun parts of starship combat.
    Accountants like numbers and math, but that doesn't mean it's fun. There's no point in having power allocation as you don't have Captain Picard saying such things like "fire all the weapons, but damn we don't have enough left for life support." Starships in Star Trek--sans combat damage--have enough power to do whatever the story dictates.
    Third, they have the torpedo strengths mixed up. A quantum torpedo, even Mark I, should be stronger than that.
    Quantum torpedoes have been enhanced in "Starships." As it is, the basic torpedo/weapon configuration is based on the (say it with me) collective firepower a vessel is able to bring to bear. The abstraction of the system removes the necessity to stat out all 12 Type X phaser arrays on a Galaxy-class starship. Who cares if an enemy is in range of your aft port-side dorsal array? You just want to fire at the ship--you don't care what actual weapon does it. Apples and oranges.
    Fourth, all shields have the same strength. Plus they don't have grids.
    These statements are both false and only serve to signify that you have no concept on how the system works or what its design philosophy is.
    And finally, why are the weapons all grouped into one? All phasers give one penetration value, all torpedoes of a certain type, I mean, come on.
    Weapons are grouped together via their offensive value to determine an aggregate penetration rating to represent the collective firepower of a vessel.
    Anyways, I've ranted long enough. If anyone has a starship creation/combat system that addresses these details, I'd love to see it.
    You want a tactical simulator. The starship combat system in the RPG is not a tactical simulator. Therefore, the system does not fail on its merits; it fails because it doesn't fulfill the role you want it to fill. For others who want an easy-to-use dramatic system that flows easily within their RPG and dramatic storytelling, the system in the Narrator's Guide fits this purpose.

    If you want to juggle numbers and play with spreadsheets then I refer you to the old FASA simulator, Spacedock, or (gasp!) Star Fleet Battles.

  9. #24
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    Our group just love the new system. We feel it totally captures what happens on screen - and we hate juggling with zillions of numbers; we want to PLAY, say cool things like "Hard about, commander, then fire on their weapons array!" and see the result - not count damage on deck 15 section 17-20-alpha-bis...!

    Two thumbs up on the combat system, for us

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  10. #25
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    Though I haven't played with the new system yet, I too feel it'll allow for a feel much closer to what we see on screen.
    After all, battles in Star Trek are often viewed from the bridge point of view (except DS9's last seasons), and you see more often the Captain ordering to take evasive manoeuvers or returning fire than the ship actually diving over the ennemy while firing from its aft phaser array (again, except in DS9's season finales).

    For excruciatingly detailed battles, I agree with Don that SpaceDock is the system to go.
    "The main difference between Trekkies and Manchester United fans is that Trekkies never trashed a train carriage. So why are the Trekkies the social outcasts?"
    Terry Pratchett

  11. #26
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    I totally agree with Don here. And I think that the system was designed quite intelligently. Of course if you are a "mini-maxer" you will find quite a number of holes or anomalies in the rules but I often find that when ST is involved hard and fast rules seldom work well. But gaps in a RPG system can be countered by a very powerful arbiter: the GM, something that most wargames do not have (which is why that such rule gaps become far more problematic). The intent of the CODA ship battle system is to emulate what you see on screen in ST, where in most ship encounters you see the TOS Enterprise, the Movie Enterprise, the 1701-D, the Defiant, Voyager or the NX-01 statically facing an opponent and only trading a few shots. So you don't really need to care about wargaming considerations like facing, weapons and shields arcs, escort units, fleet formations, etc. I guess that in a "real world" ST setting, yes, a ship captain would have to maneuver for advantage (for instance, presenting his most powerful phaser banks towards the enemy while minimizing his own ship's profile, etc) but on the shows and in the RPG as well this is represented by loose orders like "come about", "initiate Alpha-One", etc. When an officer may call for, say, an "Omega-Five", maybe the actual move is to go past an opponent's weak shield and fire the aft torpedoes in a narrow-spread pattern. Now, we did see a lot of epic fleet battles in DS9 and I that would be great grounds for a wargame. But it would have to be abstract to a certain point even in that regard because I feel that you cannot pin down ST ship combat with hard and fast rules. You have to account for the fact that the ship's capabilities are determined by whatever the scriptwriters decide a particular week, not by standard miltary logic or what tech manuals say (which is fine, ST is NOT a military show... I'd say quasi-military ). For example, take 2 exact same Galaxy-class ships; put one in a series context with a regular crew (say the 1701-D); this ship will take a pounding week after week and will go through 7 seasons... while the other Galaxy-class ship will last 5 seconds in another show, either being rammed by Dominion fighters, cut apart by Cardassian warships or being broken in half by the alien superbeing of the week.
    And an eventual wargame would have to reflect that... and the current CODA RPG system reflects that quite well.

  12. #27
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    I just finished a starship form in Printmaster. It's plain and simple and much more printer friendly than the Decipher version. It's two pages, each about 870 Kb in bitmap format. I just sent them in to the submissions address, I hope they put them in the core. I could email them out though if they don't put them in the core.
    "Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!", annonymous American Marine, WWI

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  13. #28
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    I must say, I've also thoroughly enjoyed the new Coda system. Comabt in my games (particularly starship combat) has been speeded up no end, and even my number-crunch-loving players have enjoyed it - maneuvers, tactics - the lot. It's like they can really feel *part* of the action, which is surely the aim of an RPG?

    I love it, and I can see why it was designed the way it is. Sure, it doesn't simulate starship battles down to the last minute details, but like Don suggested, there are plenty of alternative games/systems people can use if they really want combat to be more of a "game" in itself than a dramatic device in a story.

  14. #29
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    Thumbs up

    I like it. Finally a system for space combat in an RPG that isn't math-intensive, requiring a ton of talbes and charts, and doesn't cut into roleplaying. If I wanted to play Starfleet Battles, I can do that; combat in an RPG should be part of or subordinate to, the story and characters.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

    John Stuart Mill

  15. #30
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    Credit to where credit is due: Matt Colville pushed very hard for the non-tactical system found in the NG. The first few passes were very FASA simulator-ish (too much so for my tastes). After he sold me on the idea we jointly went through the task of ripping out the tactical system to make it flow better during play. This, of course, led to new problems, specifically ranges, which led to the abstract little "range line" that you use to track ranges. (Maneuvers were always a key cornerstone of the system--I wanted something for the players to do. There were, for a time, Engineering maneuvers, as an example.)

    With very little alteration you could re-add the tactical movement system (grid-based), movement rounds, actions (maneuvers), and the individual weapons/arcs.

    Of course, at that point I think you've gotten so far away the point of the current design that I don't think you've gained anything via this additional complexity. There are probably better systems out there (Full Thrust, Silent Death, Noble Armada, FASA Simulator, Star Fleet Battles) to handle that level of "crunchy-ness."

    Glad people out there like it and understand what we were trying.

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