I have a question concerning Treaty stipulations. In my series I'm starting about six months before the end of the Dominion War. I've thought about outfitting my ship with and energy sheeth wich would not make the ship invisible but would seriously hinder long-range sensors. What do you suppose the Romulans would have to say about that, would it fall under Treaty stipulations?
(...)a peace treaty agreed with the Romulan Star Empire, prevents the Federation from pursuing ship-cloaking technology.
If the ships is visible (with eyes), and only deflect sensor with a kind of enery sheet, its not really a cloking device... But since it use pretty much the same principle, it can be interpret as something to irritate the Star Empire.
Romulans are hard to predict... as shown when they came to help the federation in the Dominion war, so i think you can be flexible and do whatever you think is better for the game, and it'll be plausible...
Don't forget that the Romulans help the Federation to perfect the Defiant's clocking device
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Im french so i can pronounce Jean-Luc Picard, not ya !
Any ship in real-time visual range would be well within weapons range, so I'd think the Romulans would call your sheath effectively a "cloaking device". They'd be fools not to.
"In 2370, the Romulans learned of a secret Federation program to develop cloaking technology, in violation of the Treaty of Algeron." "....a later treaty in 2371 acually allowed for starfleet to use Romulan cloaking technology in the UFP's war against the borg" Page 22 in The Way of Dera boxed set.
What is not said is, to my knowlage, there was later an amendment to this new treaty that allowed Starfleet to use Romulan cloaking technology against the Dominion.
The key here is "Romulan cloaking technology". If the Federation has developed the "cloak" that would be a direct violation of the second treaty. That is two violations in the span of about four years. Not at all good. There would be some very heated negotiations on the subject. The Star Empire may even withdraw from the UFP/RSE aliance against the Dominion.
That leave's an interesting question. Will the Empire stay in the fight against, the Dominion, would they withdraw from the war all together(not bloody likely), or would they side with the Dominion?
Some food for the old GM brain. But regardless it would not sit well with the Preator or the anti-UFP portion of the senate. I belive the term is "No good can come of this.
In the campain in witch I play I served as the capitan of the Britannia near the Romulan NZ. I had many run-ins withe the Star Empire, I tell you there would be some very major problems if the RSE were to find out Starfeey broke another treaty.
Just my opinoin.
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Capt. D. Harn,
U. S. S. Britannia N.C.C. 31379
Excelsior Class CEX, NTU
[This message has been edited by Damian Harn (edited 04-03-2001).]
The amendment to the treaty stipulates that the Romulan cloak is only to be used in the Gamma quadrant. However, Capt. Sisko seems to conveniently forget this every so often, as he has used the cloak on numerous occassions in the alpha quadrant. It is this last part that could cause contention if the Romulans ever "formerly" found out.
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I think that the treaty was drawn up when the Romulans did not possess warp technology. It was assumed the treaty was signed in 2160 afer the first Romulan War, but it was later stated in "Pegasus" that it wasn't signed until 2311. Maybe there is more than one Treay of Algeron, like the First and Second Khitomer Accords?
The Romulans didn't have it until they traded tech with the Klingons. When the treay was drawn up the Romulans only had old War Birds (sublight ships), the treaty seem to get at the Federation's idea of fair play. The Romulans are invisible but they don't have warp drive. When they got it someone should have drawn up a new treaty.
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"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"
In LUG canon, the Treaty of Cheron between Earth and the Romulan empire ended the war. Fortunatly, both sides decided that the treaty was still in effect after Earth joined the Federation. No one saw the Romulans until Kirk fought them a hundred odd years later.
After the Tomed incident of 2311, a new treaty between the Federation and the Romulans was created. This was the Treaty of Algernon, where the Federation gave up Cloaking Technology, which they didn't feel as a great loss since it went against current policy, in exchange for actually having a Treaty and a Neutral Zone. The Romulans then entered a period of isolation until Picard encountered them 50 odd years later.
Want more info, it's in The Way of Dera.
Now that I'm done with the history lesson, my on topic thoughts.
I like the idea of having "Stealth Technology" (for lack of a better term) available to the Federation.
The ship would have to be visible at any reasonable distance i.e. weapons range, in order to avoid "It's a cloaking device" problems. It may be as simple as giving a penalty to discovering the ship on long range sensors. That shouldn't interfere with combat in any way, just allow for a little "Tactical Maneuvering" outside of combat.
For what it's worth, Gene Roddenberry came up with the Treaty banning Federation use of the cloak because the Federation is supposed to be upstanding and open, and not "sneaking around all over the place." I think he would have had real issues with Defiant even having a cloak.
Do with it what you will, and don't forget the first rule of role-playing: The Narrator is always right
If I understand the concept of the Energy Sheeth, the ship is all ways visble except to a ships sensors at long range. Its the same thing that that merc ship had in ep. with the Stone of Gol.
My opinion, it does not break the treaty. The only thing you have to watch for, particularly if you are going to skulling around the RNZ...Don't get caught, it still is within the boundries of the Treaty, but some Romulan Commander might take offense at a "stealth" ship in the NZ.
The energy sheath doesn't hide a ship from lateral sensors, that's got a range of light year, right? As far as I know, 1 ly is still outside of weapons range for the known Alpha/Beta Quadrent species...
I suppose I could go pull out my Space Dock book and look it up, but it's late and I am feeling lazy. =)
Folks, it if blocks the ship from being detected by sensors it is a cloaking device.
It's not like people are looking out the portholes for other ships, they detect them on sensors and project an impage on the screen. You wouldn't be able to see a km long starship at the distances we are talking about without sensors.
Well I would say, as it only blocks long-range sensros its more something like stealth technology and no cloak, cause it remains detectable. But still the Romulans would see an infraction of the treaty I would say, if not asked before. they might approve the idea as if it is used only against the Dominion, as they also gave a cloaking device for the Defiant.
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
I am going to side with TonyG here and class Stealth and Cloak into the same boat, after all cloaking technology is just extreme stealth Technology.
And has been said, there was a OOC reason why the Federation didn't use cloaking tech.
HOWEVER...
There seems to be a large point here that has been missed. While it has regularly been raised that the Romulans loaned the cloaking device aboard the Defiant, does anyone remember T'Rul, the Romulan played by Martha Hackett that was assigned to monitor the cloaking device...
So, if playing during the Dominion War, why not assign a similar situation, give them a cloaking device and find out if any of your players want to play a Romulan exchange officer?
Sounds like good roleplay potential to me...
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Dan.
"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."
It probably depends on the actual wording of the Treaty of Algernon.
What is the legal definition of a cloaking device?
If it's designed around the Romulan Cloaking Device model, which allows a ship to sneak up on you, and attempt to blast you down without you being able to defend yourself, then a sensor sheath designed to mask long range movement, but that is useless at closer range doesn't fit the model, and would probably, from a legal standpoint, be allowed.
Is the legal definition of a cloak more open to anything that blocks sensors from detecting the ship? In that case, the sensor sheath is illegal and wouldn't be allowed.
Which means, of cource, that since we don't have any info about the Treaty of Algernon, each GM has to decide what the treaty says for himself.
As an aside, I can see the Romulans calling the Fed on the carpet about the Defiant and it's cloak and having a Logistics Officer pull out a record of all the Romulans across the Neutral Zone incidents. "This treaty works both ways guys."
And, the idea of a Romulan Exchange Officer is pretty cool if that's the way you decide to go.
Alex
[This message has been edited by Captain Blake (edited 07-20-2001).]
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