Is Star Trek dying?

[abraxas2271]

I think that it should have had time off after Voyager ended.Maybe just a season or two,I believe we could have waited that long .

I voted for dead but I think that may have been wrong.I think Star Trek is really killing itself.We've had so many episodes and movies its a feeling of been there done that.

BUT!!

Leets take a look at the novels.I,for one,enjoy the novels for the most part(a whole lot more good than bad which isnt something I can say for the series right now.

IMO,they should turn to the novel writers to help energize the series and let them do some movie of the weeks or limited series I mean Paramount does have its own network.

I would absolutely love to see New Frontier or Challenger a few times a season.Thatway its not every week and we will look forward to the next movie or limited series.

I just dont think letting all these good writers(Peter David and Judith and Gar stevens especially) who have to work under the continuity constraints could do on the air.

But of course it wont happen anytime soon because the novels are only the bastard stepchild(who happens to make them a lot of money)

Anyway just my two strips of latnium

Merry Christmas

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Highway Hoss
One reason that TOS and TNG has a lot of good stories is that Gene Roddenberry hired outside wirter and sci-fi writers to write episodes for the series. Voyager and Enterprise have suffered form the fact that there is only two people writing sstories for them.

Actually, the best late-TOS and early-TNG episodes were produced in spite of Roddenberry instead of because of choices he made. Some of the worst episodes of those eras were those Roddenberry decided to "improve" by re-writing them himself.

This is similar to what Berman and Braga are doing now, and that (IMO) is their biggest mistake. They (like Roddenberry before them did) need to learn to trust others to be true to their vision and not try to micromanage every detail...

[Balok]

I voted for "lull" mostly because that's what I hope it is. The other choice being "dying". Television ratings are down, and the movie is not doing well (around $25 million after last weekend, and a huge drop -- admittedly, it had stuff competition, but when you can't beat "The Hot Chick", you're definitely doing something wrong).

All this in the face of Les Moonves' edict that UPN work to improve the value of its Star Trek properties.

I hope that perhaps Paramount looks at the creative staff and considers some changes, although I have no ideas about who I'd put in place of B&B (I'm sure JMS wouldn't do it, but I'd sure like to see that. Bellisarius might be able to do the franchise justice, but JAG is a cash cow for CBS, and they'd be idiots to let him go.)

[erhershman]

Heck no!

I don't agree that commercial success or lack thereof measures whether Trek is "dying." But I do think the main reason the franchise is showing signs of age is because those in charge of it refuse to do anything differently other than show more sexual content. One of the things I think DS9 did so well is because it was such a radical departure, at least initially, from what had proven to be successful on Trek- they had less than perfect characters, a darker storyline, and astonishingly, NO STARSHIP ENTERPRISE! But somehow it worked, because it was such a different vision of the Star Trek universe.

What dear old Rick and Brannon need to do is come up with a new concept that totally departs from anything we've seen on Trek, in the way that DS9 did... a show with no Starfleet officers could be a start.

[Evan van Eyk]

Well that depends on what Star Trek is. At least in my point of view Star Trek is more than just a TV series, which frankly became more and more commercial marketing than the vision Roddenberry once had.
Star Trek is 'to boldly go where no man hs gone before' in several aspects and at least the idea is maybe mor topical than anytime else. However if I watch Enterprise I do not have the same feeling as if I see TNG and yet its a Star Trek feeling. And although there are up and downs in Star Trek, and I have to admit I am currently in a down, its a phenomenon encountered everywhere and I am sure Star Trek will revive.
The reason why LOTR and SW are more successful, is that people had to wait for it far longer. There were no SW movies for decades and there had been no LOTR movie at all ( with the cartoon exception ). I think that's simply the competition. ST has been present for decades and became routine. Thus people prefer SW and LOTR over it, because its no routine.
I think a pause would be good for the ST franchise but not neccessarily for Star Trek as a phenomenon.

[Salinger]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
The reason why LOTR and SW are more successful, is that people had to wait for it far longer. There were no SW movies for decades and there had been no LOTR movie at all ( with the cartoon exception ). I think that's simply the competition. ST has been present for decades and became routine. Thus people prefer SW and LOTR over it, because its no routine.
I think a pause would be good for the ST franchise but not neccessarily for Star Trek as a phenomenon.

I definitely don't agree with that. I believe that Trek could go on and on, but the problem now is that the writing is stale and hackneyed. The solution to that is to put in people who can tell a good story. Braga and Berman aren't it.

I'd be willing to put money on the reversal of Trek's decline if those two hacks were ousted and Ronald D. Moore were brought back.

Quack!

[Dan Stack]

As a counterpoint, take the James Bond movie" Die Another Day". While not a LotR-like success, it had a very nice box-office take - after over a month in release it has been beating Nemesis in daily receipts - a sign that an old franchise still can pull in dollars. And note that 007 has had a few box office bombs in its time as well, a potentially hopeful sign that Trek can be revitalized.

[Balok]

Originally posted by Dan Stack
As a counterpoint, take the James Bond movie" Die Another Day". While not a LotR-like success, it had a very nice box-office take - after over a month in release it has been beating Nemesis in daily receipts - a sign that an old franchise still can pull in dollars. And note that 007 has had a few box office bombs in its time as well, a potentially hopeful sign that Trek can be revitalized.

Exactly. First, though, Paramount has to realize that there is a need for improvement. If they have realized this, there is no public record of it.

The Bond franchise even suffered through a period of a placeholder for the title character until they could get the actor they wanted. And it has come back strong. Trek could do that, too, if the powers that be realize that improvement is necessary. I just hope they don't thing the fans are lemmings who will line up regardless of whether the offering is filet mignon or s**t on a shingle.

[REG]

As some critics have predicted, NEMESIS have dropped out of the Top 10 Movie list, now at the #11 spot with last weekend's gross revenue of over $4 million in the US.

Die Another Day is at #10 with a little over $4.3 million.
Harry Potter and the Chamer of Secrets is at #8 with just over $6.4 million.

The box office king is The Two Towers, which raked in over $48.8 million this past weekend, surpassing the $100 million mark in worldwide revenue. New Line Cinema is most especially please at those green digits. Now, who was that other production company that passed over Peter Jackson's adaptation? I hope their getting their asses kicked under the mistletoe, repeatedly.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend...wknd=52&p=.htm

[AslanC]

Originally posted by REG
As some critics have predicted, NEMESIS have dropped out of the Top 10 Movie list, now at the #11 spot with last weekend's gross revenue of over $4 million in the US.

I would like to say for the record, while I predicted this would happen, I enjoyed the and liked the movie.

Go figure.

Sure it has some stuff you can nitpick, but overall I enjoyed the romp. Much more than Inssurection.

Oh and TT has reached over $200 million, the fast movie to do so thus far.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Azs I see it, Trek's problem is twofold. Firstly, the general public is tired with seeing the same old thing over and over again. And secondly, the 'fans' are so fractionated, and have such widely varied ideas of what they want from Trek that nobody has a clue what to give them.

Then there's the fans who just can't get past forcing themselves to watch every week and incessently complain about how much they dislike it I never understood that.

Anyway, my friends and I are going to see Nemesis on Thursday, for the UK preview. And I have no doubts we'll have a blast.

[bilbosmaug]

I remember watching the the original TV series

The big 3-Kirk Spock and Bones

Nyota, Hikaru, Scotty and Pavel.

and then I read the James Blish novelizations.

....ACK! In Operation Annihlate Spock doesn't go blind and Kirk's brother isn't on the planet. But we do get a nice explostion at the end

The Menergie was not done just the The Cage ("Flashbacks confusing" "Spock's World", "Strangers from the Sky", "Shadows on the Sun". Boy, I'm must be a MORON!) treated like dirt.

Where No Man Has gone before was exactly as shown on screen.

The Galieo Seven and Spock's Brain should have been redone.

People courting death to rescue a body?! People screaming at Spock?!

Spock's brain floating around?!

Spock acts like a cold b@stard

These books were what alot of people Desilu wanted the series to be.

No wonder that Gene and Gene rewrote many of the teleplays

mmm..City on the Edge of Forever is the way it was on screen :smirk:


TAS

Arex and M'ress Purrrrrrrrr

2 exists on the Bridge

Uhura in Command

"Yesteryear"

hampered by 30 min format

novelizations improve the series


TOS movies

"let's film these scenes then cut them...." Why?! This isn't on TV! this is in the Theaters!

When TNG came out they should have added some special effects from that show and scrapped the ones created for TOS.

The Klingons SUCK!

the novelizations have scenes the script writer should have thought of.

Scotty, Bones, Nyota, Hikaru, Pavel and even Bones get screwed!

Backstory anyone?

So much potential...so much waste


TNG

brings back ideas from "The Cage" and "Phase II"

all characters explored including their back story

What TOS should have been


TOS and TNG original novels...every month heeehee. Then DS9 came out....GAG novelizations were only the good ones. DC Comics (when "Scotty's Love Letter" came out) good too.


DS9

Life on a space station

....wowowow...NEW....ORIGINAL....great characters....great plots

....this show SUCKS?!


TNG Generations

What as the point in doing the TOS part of they were just going to hack it apart?!

Where are the new Starfleet uniforms?! I think B&B thought during the creation of Voyager "We're copying Spock, Worf and Data. We don't want any strikes againest this show let's use DS9's!"


Voyager

(see above)

Woman captain....wowowow....more of an ego than Kirk

Marquis issue resolved too soon

"Let's copy episodes from TOS and TNG (we hate DS9) The fans are too stupid to notice.

"Pathways" and "Mosaic should have been done ON tv. We did get to see the original Generations uniforms DROOL and more of Barcley and Troi double DROOL


TNG First Contact

Great Film! What the others should have been! The E-E is what the E-D should have been

great transporter effect

warp effect better than Voyager's!

The starfleet uniforms...YECK! Should have stuck with the original ones from Generations

In the ready room scene Picard hits the E-D model. Lily picks up the E-C secondary hull "You broke your little ships" "I guess he didn't know when to stop" the E-D model is in the center of this scene


TNG Insurrection

The Beginning was good but then bogged down in awful wrtting

of course the Star Trek Editing Curse strikes again!

But it's good to the Phase II shuttlecraft (captain's yaht) and TNG finally get it's own shuttflecraft.

They realized they shrewed up the standard duty uniforms by including the dress uniforms


The Lives of Dax, Enterprise Logs, Fall of Terok Nor and The 34th Rule. wowowowowowowowowow

Pocket Books Relaunch.....GAG
DS9 and SCE are the only ones worth it! ymmmmmmmm

Wildstorm's comics are good except when they enter the realm of the E-E.


Enterprise

Klingons in 2151?!
"Lets have in the first episode first contact with the Andorians."{
"Nononononono!" We must bring back Klingons!"

Holotech?!

Vulcans act like Romulans?!

Akiraprise?!

Downgrading all tech from DS9's Defiant (bridge and shuttlepods)and Star Trek VI (phasers and communicators)?! Looks like from Early 23rd Century

Phasers?!

Shapeshifters and Time Travel?!

Klingon ship downgraded version of Vorcha

Starfleet(?!) uniforms reversels from "Endgame" ah HA! thats the reason they used the ones from "All Good Things"!

Why did Zeframe Cochrane leave?!

B&B trash DS9 then steal Defiant stuff and one episode?!

:snicker:

Intro music..........Vogon poerty reading

Americans did everything?!

NX-01's warp nacelles and Andorian look are the only compliments I can give here


TNG Nemesis

The begining and ending are hacked apart!

Why put Wesley in there?!

I read the novelization up to Geordi's and Guinan's talk. YECK! Film DVD better...I can't believe I said that!

we never saw the transporter room

Janeway makes great Admiral

Star Trek live action is DEAD D-E-A-D

DS9, SCE and RPG books live on

[REG]

Originally posted by bilbosmaug

The Galieo Seven and Spock's Brain should have been redone.

IMHO, the Galileo Seven episode is pretty good.

As for Spock's Brain episode, this aired when Gene is on a mad trip about the NBC network exec who gave them the worst timeslot for the show's third and later-to-be final season.

No wonder that Gene and Gene rewrote many of the teleplays

Of course, Gene L Coon handled script rewrite better.

TOS movies

"let's film these scenes then cut them...." Why?! This isn't on TV! this is in the Theaters!

the noveliations have scenes the script writer should have thought of.

I don't know what the reason, except theatrical films don't last longer than two hours. Moviegoers of the 70's and 80's won't stand for any film lasting longer than two hours.

TOS and TNG original novels...every month heeehee. Then DS9 came out....GAG novelizations were only the good ones.

I strongly disagree. The DS9 TV series tops TNG as a great spinoff. Then again, I have stayed away from reading any Star Trek fiction so as not to confuse myself with canon and non-canon lore.

In fact I would go so far to say, DS9 is a better spinoff than VOY and ENT.

TNG Generations

What as the point in doing the TOS part of they were just going to hack it apart?!

It is nothing more than a "passing of the torch" film.

Although I could have done better.

Where are the new Starfleet uniforms?! I think B&B thought "We're copying Spock, Worf and Data. We don't want knew ones!"

???

TNG First Contact

Great Film! What the others should have been! The E-E is what the E-D should have been

Yes, great films, should be in the same pedestal as The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country.

The E-E is the result of the Borg Invasion and Cardassian War, as well as the looming Dominion War. It would be appropriate for the film, for the E-E would not be carrying children on board (at least not any we've seen).

While the E-D is a great ship in its own right, it is only natural they would evolved into something like the E-E in their timeline.

The starfleet uniforms...YECK! Should have stuck with the original ones from Generations

Again, only natural as the attitude has shifted along with development in reaction to the events at that time period.

[Lt.Khrys Antos]

You know what Nemesis needed? A cameo of a group of warrior klingons who barge in for no reason and rip Wesley limb from limb while chanting for absolutely no reason (yes, I hate him that much).

Now that would have been good film-making.

[Joe Dizzy]

Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
You know what Nemesis needed? A cameo of a group of warrior klingons who barge in for no reason and rip Wesley limb from limb while chanting for absolutely no reason (yes, I hate him that much).

Now that would have been good film-making.

You know the first 500 times I heard that joke I didn't think it was funny. Can't say I've changed my mind.