Ultimate Trek

[Highway Hoss]

Recently, there has been considerable speculation on whether Star Trek is dying...certainly the low box office of Nemesis and the poor ratings of Enterprise seems to hint at this, so the question becomes: Can Trek be revitalized?<p>I believe so...look at Marvel Comics, for example...using their "Ultimate" line, they have revitalized their most famous characters, making them fresh and new; it has been an unqualified success. I think what Trek needs is this kind of "rebirth". Start the Trek universe anew...incorporate Classic elements but in a whole new setting. Make a more consistent and contemporary universe.<p>OK, enough of my ramblings....what are your thoughts on this, people?

[StyroFoam Man]

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[Joe Dizzy]

While I don't disagree with Styro's assessment, I think that's oversimplifying things a bit.

Trek is a TV show. As such you need money to make it and it's reasonable to expect that the people investing money are not satisfied with just breaking even (?). People want to make money with the work they do.
Such is the nature of the beast. If you can produce quality while making money - great. If not, well at least you have the money to pay your bills.

While I agree that Ultimate!Trek would be interesting. I might even run a campaign like that one day, I wouldn't watch a weekly TV show like that. It'd be even more self-referential than the current series.

And that's the last thing Trek needs right now, IMO.

[Liz Not Beth]

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[Dan Stack]

Originally posted by Liz Not Beth
What's wrong with it the way it is?

No-one's watching.

[AslanC]

Why is it everytime someone starts a thread about the problems with Trek everyone who has no problem with it posts?

I am not criticizing, just observing. It is a weird thing.

I am all in favour of this idea.

It is always fun to exercise of speculative fiction

So what did you have in mind?

[Greg Davis]

Originally posted by AslanC
Why is it everytime someone starts a thread about the problems with Trek everyone who has no problem with it posts?

It's probably related to the similar notion that whenever someone starts a thread about Enterprise, everyone who hates it posts...

Personally, I'm of two minds when it comes to an 'Ultimate Trek' concept. On the one hand, I think that it could present Trek in a new and interesting light, free from a lot of the confines that Trek now has to operate in.

On the other hand, though, I can't honestly see how it would be accepted by the more ardent fans (like many from TrekRPG, for example). I mean, the basic premise would seem to be the prelude to a fan war, as it would take the continuity that fans fuss and fight over and toss it aside. I'm certain that we can all recall the hotly debated canon issues of the past (and the ones from Enterprise). Heck, people made a fuss about Picard's bald Academy picture from Nemesis...how can people who have trouble with such a minor triviality such as that be expected to tune into a series like Ultimate Trek.

Generally, I avoid posting on threads like this because, invariably, I write something that seems to strike someone the wrong way, and I think that's a tell-tale sign about the nature of Trek. Fans (such as those found here) are passionate about Trek, and the nature, vision and direction of Trek. I can't honestly fathom how there can be a new Trek series that will please all parties involved but, notwithstanding that, I think that a series like 'Ultimate Trek' would be one worth giving a shot. How it would be done, and what it might cover, though, is anyone's guess.

Perhaps, to be more 'mainstream', we could look towards shows that have had long-term, major network popularity, and find a way to give it a Star Trek twist.

Just some thoughts...



Greg

[StyroFoam Man]

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[Greg Davis]

Wow, Styro, that's an impressive list...you must have put a lot of time into thinking of ways to make my suggestion seem utterly moronic...

I also find it odd that you think that there's nothing wrong with Trek, yet, if I recall correctly, you're often one of those who chime in on the Enterprise threads with your disdain for the show. It leaves me to wonder, then, if you think that there's nothing wrong with Trek, what's your problem with Enterprise?

Me, personally, I'm satisfied with the current state of Trek. That doesn't mean that I'm not interested in new concepts (like Ultimate Trek), but I'm not ready to scrap what's currently going on (like Enterprise).

As an aside, right before I looked at this thread, I looked at Sytro's "Is TrekRPG.net Dying?" thread, and I saw Dan's response wherein he 'handed Sytro a mirror'. Now, I may be misinterpreting here, but I'd have to agree about taking a good long look, because I get the feeling that, in a lot of cases, unminced words and sarcastic tones might leave people second-guessing about whether or not they want to post. For myself, there's a lot of times I start to write a post, and then stop and erase what I've written, because I don't think that it's going to be taken in a constructive way, or because I just don't want to read a stream of negative comments about what I've posted.

Now, I've got nothing against genuine, constructive criticism, and I'll give it as good as I get it, but, when someone takes an idea of mine and twists it around, with an attempt to create a less-than-fair result, I take exception to that.

That's the feeling that I'm getting here, in this thread. I tossed out a suggestion based on the topic, and, in my opinion, got mocked for it. To me, that's not cool...at all.

Perhaps it's a combination of holiday pressure and general aggravation, but Styro's post just rubbed me the wrong way and pushed a button, I guess. I'm going to take a couple of days off from the boards to clear my head, and then I'll be back.

By the way, as a general rule, I have nothing against Styro or anyone else here, and I may have misinterpreted his post. If I did, then I wholeheartedly apologize for any harsh words on my part, but I still feel that the core message of the post is valid, in any event.



Greg

[Highway Hoss]

When I proposed the idea of Ultimate Trek, I did not envision scrapping Classic Trek at all; rather, I was thinking of how to make Trek more relavent to today's audiences while still maintaining the spirit of the series. After all, while Marvel is publishing its Ultimate books, its also still printing Classic books as well. The idea of Trek IMHO is still quite viable. Ultimate Trek is my response to the question "How do you make Star Trek more appealing to mainstream audiences while still staying faithful to the ideals of Trek and appealing to the hardcore fan as well?" A good example of this can be found where I got my Ultimate idea from: comics. Many comics characters (Superman,Batman,Spider-Man) have been reimagined to fit into today's world. I personally think that for Trek to thrive, it needs a similar reimagining; if not a new universe, maybe at least a "Crisis on Infinite Treks" where the Trek Universe is given a cosmic overhaul to resolve those more blatant inconsistencies.

[Dan Stack]

I'm a big fan of Marvel's Ultimate line. Why?

Because over the past twenty or so years I've been a moderate Comics fan. Don't collect every issue of every book, don't know what happened in Issue 126 of Amazing Spider-Man. But I know who Spider-Man is. It works, it returns the characters to their core. Spider-Man is again a nerdy high school student, the X-Men are a bunch of youngsters recruited by Professor Xavier, fighting the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. They recapture the legend while eliminating the baggage. In so doing, they can re-realize the storylines for the modern age.

Would it work for Trek? Like all things, it depends. A big issue would be the quality of the writing and the acting.

But who do people think of with Star Trek - Captain Kirk and Captain Picard. Moreso Captain Kirk in my opinion. And Mr. Spock. When comedians spoof Trek it's usually the classic Trek. It has a place in the American consciousness.

I would be very interested to see a new Star Trek, starting fresh. You could still use all the aliens of TNG and DS9, just have Kirk and company meet them. How many times has the first encounter of Lex Luthor and Superman been shown on the screen, from the George Reeves TV show to Christopher Reeve. From Superboy to Lois and Clark to Smallville. It can work on television.

I'm not sure it would work for Trek, as Trek ages ago steered away from that course with Star Trek: The Motion Picture. However both Marvel (Ultimates line) and DC (Crisis on Infinite Earths) have shown it can be done, even with a long-established piece of intellectual property.

Personally I'd tune it. It would appeal to me because though it would return to basics, it would also feel new. I think Enterprise has the back to basics feel, but, even as a fan, it doesn't quite feel new, quite possibly because it is constrained by nearly forty years of Trek-canon.

And I think it would have a shot at recapturing a more general audience, something I think Trek desperately needs to do.

In AslanC's thread I mentioned that in my opinion Trek needs to evaluate all of its "sacred cows". This would be an example of so doing. I'm not sure it would work, but I would certainly not dismiss it out of hand.

[StyroFoam Man]

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[Owen E Oulton]

I think this sort of thing would be the utter death of Trek. This trend is the single biggest reason I stopped collecting comics 15 years ago when it first started snowballing...

[AslanC]

Not sure what trend you are talking about, since the Ultimates is a year old at best.

Are you talking about the Crisis?

Granted I miss the multiple-earths, but the Crisis was well done IMHO.

[Dan Stack]

I suspect Owen is indeed referring to Crisis, which was mid-80's.

I actually see Owen's point and concede he might be right. I think it would likely be a good thing, but that would be heavily dependent on the creative team. While I have hopes it would revitalize Trek (both dramatically and in popular culture), the failure of such an exercise quite likely would end Trek.