LoTR 4th Age Questions

[AslanC]

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4786/31389

That link has some interesting stuff BTW.

Okay say I wanted to run a game deeper into the 4th age than jsut 100 years, but long enough that other than elves, none of theFellowship is still alive, etc.

What is the world of Middle-Earth like?

What's the deal with the Kingdoms?

Arnor? Gondor? Rohan?

The Elves? The Dwarves? The Shire?

The Rangers? The Orcs? The Goblins?

Etc...

Lay of the land is what I am looking for.

Thanks in advance.

[SIR SIG]

Well the 4th Age is the Age of Man.

So unless there is some major evil afoot I'd say that the Kingdom's of Man would be prospering.

That said the North and South Kingdoms Arnor and Gondor respectively would be doing very well.

Most Elves would have left for Valinor by now. Perhaps some lost Enclaves would keep the Alliance going but you would need some evil for that.

The Dwarves probably would have taken back Khazadum (Moria) and expended their other holdings in the East around the Lonely Mountain etc. And perhaps the Western Holds.

The Rangers (Dunedain) would have intergrated with Arnor since they are originally of that place.

I imagine there will always be Orcs and Goblins but without something to organise them they are not a threat in the world shattering sense.

Rohan is now closely tied to Gondor and would be prospering as well.

[Liquidator Queeg]

Here is an outline of northwestern Middle-earth in the year 151 of the Fourth Age. It was written by the same person who wrote an article in Other Hands (1:16-19) detailing the plots and schemes of Sauron's ficticious daughter Aelindur (whom I'm using in my own chronicle). Unfortunately, I no longer recall the name of the person who wrote this stuff, and I post it here as is, mistakes and all. It's pretty good, and outlines a possible general "state of affairs" in NW Middle-earth circa FA 150.

Cheers,

Steve

-------------------------------------------------------

NORTHWESTERN ENDOR: FA 151

The reunited Kingdom of Gondor & Arnor possesses de facto hegemony over northwestern Endor. Formally, the sister realms possess the lands between the Ered Luin, Forochel, the Misty Mountains, Ephel Dúath, and Umbar (apart from the independent but allied state of Rohan and the semi-autonomous Shire). In practice, however, the King's authorities exercise very little control over the Dunlendish tribes of Enedhwaith and each harsh and gloomy and swept around the thus died all hope of Drúwaith Iaur and the natives of sparsely-populated Harondor.

Although united under the same monarch, Gondor and Arnor retain separate legislative, administrative, and military establishments. King Eldarion resides in Minas Tirith and has appointed his son and heir Eldacar to the position of Viceroy of Arnor at the rebuilt capital of Fornost Erain. Traditionally, the King travels north every summer to briefly sojourn in his northern lands.

Arnor

Arnor remains a sparsely populated land despite the King's encouragement of Gondorian colonization through advantageous taxation policies. Its population centers are Lake Evendim, and the Baranduin and Lhûn valleys. Its only major city is Fornost Erain, though there are serious plans to rebuild Tharbad, whose bridge has already been repaired as has the Greenway running from Fornost Erain to the Gap of Rohan. There is also a new fortress at Weathertop, built by the Dwarves of Moria some decades ago.

Gondor

Gondor has changed little since the War of the Ring. Ithilien is gradually being re-populated under Prince Boromir, son of Éowyn and Faramir, who rules his fief from the newly built capital Ost-en-Ernil in the Emyn Amen. Imrahil's granddaughter Wilwarin is Princess of Dol Amroth and fief-holder of Dor-en-Ernil. Her cousin Edrahil is Captain of the Knights of Belfalas. Minas Tirith's fortifications were repaired and strengthened by the Dwarves of Aglarond in early Fourth Age, and the city is now the most well defended location in the region.

The city of Umbar and its rural surroundings are ruled by a governor (currently Prince Boromir's brother Beren) who is directly responsible to the King. The region has been slowly reintegrated into Gondor's territory, but King Eldarion believes it will take more time before it can be turned into a regular province of the realm. He is worried about secessionist strivings among its locals, since the leading citizens of Umbar, even without the interference of Sauron, clearly have other political priorities than Minas Tirith: Gondor looks to the northeast while Umbar looks to the south.

Rohan

The Riddermark has grown stronger over the past century due the demise of its surrounding foes in the War of the Ring, though the lifestyle of the riders has not changed (apart from a growing pride that occasionally takes chauvinistic appearances). The third King of the Third Line, the aged Elfhelm, son of Elfwinë, currently rules the realm. Outside the Hornburg, there is now a growing town, which serves as a center for Westfold. The Dwarves of Aglarond have a thriving business in tools and weaponry, which they exchange for food and other supplies from the locals.

Dunland

The Dunlendish clans are the dominating Mannish group in the area between the Gwathló, the Misty Mountains, the White Mountains, and the Sea. Technically, they are subjects of the Winged Crown, and their chieftains have occasionally expressed words of loyalty to the King in Minas Tirith. In practice, they follow their own leaders and traditions. In secret, most harbor strong hatred towards the Dúnedain and the Rohirrim for denying them what they consider Dunlendish rights. Gondor only controls the Greenway, the rest of the region being the natives' turf, where unwary foreign travelers have sometimes disappeared without a trace.

Mordor

After the War of the Ring, King Elessar gave the land of Núrnen to its slaves. They established the Kingdom of Lithlad, a densely populated agricultural country. It is closely allied to Gondor, and the population has a strong pro-Dúnadan attitude in consequence of their recent liberation. Gorgoroth, however, is an abandoned wasteland. As far as everyone knows, Sauron's strongholds toppled when his power was broken, and Orodruin sleeps.

Rhovanion

The peoples of the upper Anduin vale, Eryn Lasgalen (formerly Mirkwood), the plains of Rhovanion, and Dorwinion have resumed many of their ancient contacts with Gondor. The disappearance of Dol Guldur's Shadow has opened the region for trade and growth, and the Northmen maintain their old friendship with Gondor.

Rhûn and Harad

Little has changed in the old realms of Rhûn and Harad. The inhabitants view Gondor with mixed feelings and worry about the possibility of renewed Dúnadan domination, however benevolent it might be. Many of the realms have long traditions of fighting the Dúnedain and such cultural memories will linger for many centuries.

The Elven lands

The Elves of the Fourth Age show little concern for the affairs of Mortals, knowing that their power has waned with the departure of their mightiest Lords and the destruction of the One Ring. Elves dominate four regions during the early Fourth Age: Lórien (which includes the southern Eryn Lasgalen, or "East Lórien"), the northern Eryn Lasgalen, Lindon, and Rivendell.

Elladan is Prince of Lórien. His Silvan-populated realm encompasses the ruins of Dol Guldur, which is kept under tight surveillance. King Thranduil continues to rule his northern woodland realm, which has suffered little change since the War of the Ring, save for a reduction in the number of giant spiders and other fell creatures in the area. Círdan rules Lindon, whose people maintain the Havens from which the Elves depart for Aman. Elrohir has assumed the position of Lord of Rivendell, which continues to serve as a refuge for the very few Noldor and Sindar that still dwell east of the Blue Mountains.

The Dwarven realms

Moria has been re-populated and is once again the most important Dwarven settlement in northwestern Middle-earth, and the Dwarves of the Blue Mountain dwindle in number as many migrate there. Aglarond has grown into a small but prosperous enclave, while the Lonely Mountain and Iron Hills retain their former importance.

The Servants of the Shadow

Sauron's downfall did not bring about the complete end of his servants. Orcs and Trolls survived in many places, especially in their mountain strongholds at Gundabad and elsewhere in the Hithaeglir. Since the War of the Ring, they have lacked a strong leader and have been reduced to squabbling among themselves, and therefore do not pose a major threat to the Free Peoples. This, however, does not spell an end to the periodic Orkish raids upon the upper Anduin vale. There is talk of Dragons and other hideous creatures in the northern wastes, but they have so far proven mere rumors. But matters might not be so well.

[Dan Stack]

Just a random idea... Being the Age of Man, why not think of ways that Men can mess things up. Arnor split over a question of who would inherit the throne, what about Anror and Gondor splitting again?

Similarly, Tolkien had indicated his experience of war and its aftermath was not so much WWII but rather WWI which he experienced (this was his response when people compared LotR to WWII). What about taking some inspiration from that - perhaps a "popular" revolution in Harad or Rhovanion leading to a communist state. Or perhaps something like the French Revolution? Obviously, with a LotR point of view.

[SIR SIG]

Thats some good info you've pulled out Steven

Still where would Sauron have scored a daughter from? Perhaps when he was advising in Numenor?

[Liquidator Queeg]

Originally posted by SIR SIG Thats some good info you've pulled out Steven

Still where would Sauron have scored a daughter from? Perhaps when he was advising in Numenor?

When I was writing some background for my Fourth Age chronicle, I had planned to include some character related to Sauron in some way. My original idea was to give Sauron a son, born to an important Numenorean noblewoman when he was on the island realm spewing his web of lies.

However, after coming across the Other Hands article, I decided to use that material instead, with some minor changes, as it was similar in theme to what I had developed but much more interesting.

Basically, when Sauron disguised himself as Annatar and went to the Elves of Eregion in the Second Age, not only did he manage to trick Celebrimbor and the Elves to fashion rings of power, he also seduced Celebrimbor's sister, Ariel. Ariel bore a child, but died during childbirth, and the baby was brought up by Celebrimbor. Years later, when Sauron's armies sacked Ost-in-edhil, Ariel's daughter was captured and brought back to the land of Mordor. Sauron built her a mansion to dwell in on the shores of Nurn, and she grew up with her father's poison and dark whisperings in her ears. Sauron named her Aelindur.

Aelindur fled to the East when Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second Age. In the East, she developed dark, sorcerous arts, and learned herself in the lore of growing twisted plants and corrupting living beings. Being the child of an Elf and a Maia, she grew powerful, and from her father she had been instilled with the ability to poison the minds of Men. Although Sauron was associated with the element of fire, Aelindur is associated with nature and the earth. She eventually gained many followers, and her followers began calling her the Dark Queen.

Upon Sauron's fall in the Third Age, Aelindur sees an opportunity for dominance in Middle-earth. Although she has neither an army nor a state (merely followers, as dedicated as they are), she relies on her cunning and her dark arts to manipulate others to do her bidding, much as her father once did. With almost all of the great lords of the West departed in the Fourth Age, Aelindur sets her black schemes in motion. Ultimately, she wants to rule Middle-earth.

Well, that's it in a nutshell.

Steve

P.S. One of the things I like is that Aelindur is an evil woman. Y'know, some people contend that Tolkien didn't write enough about women, particularly strong women (bah!). This is, in a neat little jab, an answer to those critics. You want a strong woman, I'll give you one -- the baddest, evilest, nastiest woman to walk the face of Middle-earth in fact! Bwah-ha-ha-ha!

[SIR SIG]

Definately a interesting concept Steven.

Where in the East?

The Rhun or the Far Harad? And would she be able to exploit their peoples?

[AslanC]

Okay so the player who is the encyclopedia is going to help me create the 4th age campaign and we shall figure it all out and find a way for him to be the Gandalf of the group, IE the guide with the 411.

Now that said I am setting this game into the 4th, well past the time of Aragorn, maybe in the reign of his great-grandson or so.

I don't want LOTR characters and baggage. I want the War of the Ring to be a memory that the common folk have all but forgotten.

Maybe about 500 years in actually. I dunno.

They I had inspiration. Now I know in Tolkien "dark Elves" is the name for elves who have never looked up on the trees.

But what about a race of actual Drow, tainted by Sauron (or even Melkor before him) and have been living underground and now that that the lion's share of the elves have left for the havens, they see their chance to strike out at Middle-Earth?

I know not completely tolkien, but I would like to see this idea out.

Any thoughts guys?

[Phantom]

What exactly is 'Tolkien?' It is your game do as you wish. When I finally get to running my game I'm sure there will be changes to continuity, either because 1) I'm not a Tolkien scholar or 2) I want the game to go that way. With the era of the 4th Age you are going to run in you pretty much have a free hand in running it the way you want, one of the reasons 4th Age info was included in the book I think.

I like your idea of 'Dark Elves' the dark powers probably didn't torure all the elves they captured into Orcs, they probably did a little tinkering here and there.

My only question is ;

I thought you didn't really like running fantasy games. Who convinced you ?

[AslanC]

Originally posted by Phantom
I thought you didn't really like running fantasy games. Who convinced you ?

Well I decided to tackle my fears head on and grow as a narrator. Honest.

No really.

Stop laughing.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by AslanC
Stop laughing.

[snicker, snicker]

[AslanC]

So in the Silmarillion there is a mother of the spiders who eats the simarils? This is what I have been told, but I know nothing more than that.

Can anyone help? Tell me more?

And the orcs were made by torturing elves? Can some one elaborate?

Stop laughing Don.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by AslanC
So in the Silmarillion there is a mother of the spiders who eats the simarils? This is what I have been told, but I know nothing more than that.

Can anyone help? Tell me more?

And the orcs were made by torturing elves? Can some one elaborate?

Stop laughing Don.

As was mentioned by Saruman stated in Fellowship the Dark powers (Melkor I assume) took a number of Elves and tortured and mutilated them creating the Orcs. Like the Trolls are mutilated Ents (I believe anyway.) Others could explain it better, like I said Im not a Tolkien Scholar.

Not laughing, honest. HA!

[Pelagius]

Originally posted by AslanC
So in the Silmarillion there is a mother of the spiders who eats the simarils? This is what I have been told, but I know nothing more than that.

Ungoliant was the spider. Sort of ally of Melkor. At Melkor's instigation, she killed trees of Valinor. Sucked them dry and poisoned them. She the removed to Middle Earth and is last heard of in Nan Dungortheb.

Sorry, don't remember more.

[Pelagius]

Ungoliant did not eat silmarils. One given to Earendil, recovered by Beren. Melkor had other two.