Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: Bowling for Colombine

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    1,132
    Gun crime in Britain is on the increase. However, despite many people on these boards telling me that Britain has a huge buncha illegal firearms doing the rounds, I still don't feel the need to arm myself or worry about walking down the street at night. If anything, I'd be more concerned about meeting some punk with a flick-knife (stabbings are more common around my area - usually kids stealing mobile phones...).

    Whilst I do lock my door at night, it's more because I live in a block of flats and I'm worried about one of my neighbours coming in drunk and mistaking my door for his own...
    "That might have been the biggest mistake of my life..."

    "It is unlikely. I predict there is scope for even greater mistakes in the future given your obvious talent for them."

    Vila and Orac, Blake's Seven

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Soviet Canuckistan
    Posts
    3,802
    It was 1997. Just about August if I recall correctly (it has been a few years).

    I was working as a bouncer at a Hip-Hop club in Vancouver. That night we had a couple of bad guys show up at the club who had it out for each other. Yes they were black, but that doesn't really matter.

    Outside they trotted and the Tech 9s' (an illegal weapon in Canada, so must have been smuggled across our border fro the US) and opened fire at each other. In classic stance, the crowd lost their minds and stampeded back into the bar as we tried to keep a semblance of order.

    A weight hit into me and something warm covered my face. I turned and saw the Police running up the street, firing into the crowd. The weight was another bouncer (whose name I have forgotten long since, he had only been with us for a week or so) and the warm feeling was his blood.

    Later at the hospital we learned that the bullet (probably from the Police guns) entered his arm and came out his elbow. 2 inches either direction and it would have killed him or me.

    I was cold for hours and didn't have my breakdown until about 4am in the hospital parking lot.

    I learned two things that night.

    1] I don't panic. Good to know that.

    2] Guns are a dangerous thing and more often then not fall into the hands of idiots (even those Cops were stupid for firing into a crowd). Gun control laws did not prevent the illegal weapons from getting into Canada, it only prevented them from being sold. Gun control didn't stop the Cops from shooting the guy right beside me.

    I won't claim what the answer is. I won't suggest that I even have a clue. But until you have been in a gun fight or the middle of one, until you have shot a man in self defense because if you didn't he would kill you, until basically you have done something with a gun other than shoot and animal or put it on a wall... well I don't know what... All I know is that you (no one person in particular, just people with their wealth of opinions... you know the old adage about opinions and assholes) really get up my nose.

    On a side note the bouncer (man I really wish I could remember his name, he was an east Indian guy) recovered alright. Well expect for the fact that he had to learn to write with his other hand since he could barely grip a cup of coffee with his right one.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    MD/USA
    Posts
    286
    Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
    [B]The movie makes a case study of the Colombine massacre and Moore tries to fnd some answers why things like that happen.

    . . .

    He shows that, e.g. Canada has no less weapons than the US, but have only around 300 deaths a year - compared to the 12000 of the US.

    . . .

    Charleton Heston had no answer why he had a loaded weapon under his pillow, . . .

    Heston had no answer as well why he held a NRA speech the day after the Colombine and after the Flynt massacre as well.
    Wow, I think Baltimore alone had almost 300 murders last year and. . .

    considering what I've heard, I bet Charleton Heston is lucky to remember what he had for breakfast this morning.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Soviet Canuckistan
    Posts
    3,802
    There is a large misconception amongst many that Canada is some kind of paradise of safety and tranquility.

    Nothing could be further from the truth.

    We have plenty of crime, just not so much violent crime as your average American city.

    Just recently the Canadian gov released its findings that violent crime is down but drug offenses are up.

    As for people not locking their doors at night, pure poppycock. One night I was working at the bar and my roommate fell asleep with the door to our apartment unlocked.

    Well when I got home my TV was gone, my VCR, his Camera Equipment and all his Star Wars CCG cards (he was a tournament player).

    This had nothing to do with guns and everything to do with heroin addicts needing money to get a fix.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Canonsburg, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,548
    He shows that, e.g. Canada has no less weapons than the US, but have only around 300 deaths a year - compared to the 12000 of the US.
    There are also many, many more of us, and for some reason we like to cluster into huge urban cesspools rather than give each other breathing room. At least, that seems to be why the murder rate is so much greater in the cities.

    Wow, I think Baltimore alone had almost 300 murders last year and. . .
    And yet Baltimore is really strict on the whole Gun Control thing.

    considering what I've heard, I bet Charleton Heston is lucky to remember what he had for breakfast this morning.
    It's only in its earliest stages, despite what that jerk George Clooney may be saying. He's still functional enough to blast Clooney back.
    Last edited by First of Two; 01-30-2003 at 03:59 PM.
    "It's hard being an evil genius when everybody else is so stupid" -- Quantum Crook

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    I guess I'm Un-Canadian: No Beer, No Hockey, No Paul Martin!
    Posts
    656
    Originally posted by ComaBoy
    considering what I've heard, I bet Charleton Heston is lucky to remember what he had for breakfast this morning.
    Remember when it was look upon as insensitive and boorish to make fun of someones illness?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those
    who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
    Dante Alighieri

    "A day without sunshine is like, you know, night."
    Sandra

    "Michael Moore is reminiscent of a heavy-handed Leni Riefenstahl, who glorified Nazism in the 1930s." Peter Worthington, Toronto Sun.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    MD/USA
    Posts
    286
    Originally posted by Kaiddin
    Remember when it was look upon as insensitive and boorish to make fun of someones illness?
    Point to you Kaiddin.

    My return question is, what sort of statement does it make to have a person with that illness in charge of an organization which promotes the ownership of weapons?

    (And I applaud the NRA in its efforts to train gun owners).

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    MetroWest, MA USA
    Posts
    2,589
    If I am not mistaken, Heston only has the first stages of Alzheimer's. That tends to have as symptoms of short-term memory loss, something that many people experience without Alzheimer's.

    It would seem reasonable to me for him to remain a president for as long as he is able, should both the NRA and he wish it.

    As far as his continuing to own guns, at this stage judgement should not be affected.

    As far as giving a talk the day after Columbine. Part of me views it as being in poor taste, part of me has no problem with it.

    The Constitution gives citizens a right to bear arms. If as a result of school shootings this right needs to be reconsidered, there is a mechanism for ammending the Constitution, I would think this would be the best route for banning firearms.
    AKA Breschau of Livonia (mainly rpg forums)
    Gaming blog 19thlevel

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Bremen, Germany
    Posts
    1,924
    Yes but banning is not the solution how Moore clearly shows, or he shows that not banning them is not the reason for the violence. And he does not say that Canada is paradise - in fact he says that there is enough crime there as well, but its only 80 gun-murders. Lets say they have less people in their country, around a tenth of the US. That would make 800 murders with a comparable population. Lets double it because of the higher density - that would be 1600 dead. But in the US its 12000!!

    There has to be something wrong.
    We came in peace, for all mankind - Apollo 11

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    I guess I'm Un-Canadian: No Beer, No Hockey, No Paul Martin!
    Posts
    656
    Is this going the devolve into a The US is the GREAT SATAN thread?

    I thought it was dealing with a minor movie industry person who makes minor movies that only a certain section of society wastes their time on.

    If this idiot were to die tomorrow, would he be remembered on Monday let alone in 20 years? Well only if Charlton Heston shot him!
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those
    who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
    Dante Alighieri

    "A day without sunshine is like, you know, night."
    Sandra

    "Michael Moore is reminiscent of a heavy-handed Leni Riefenstahl, who glorified Nazism in the 1930s." Peter Worthington, Toronto Sun.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Bremen, Germany
    Posts
    1,924
    Are you ok, Kaiddin? Have you had a bad day or something?

    Nowhere was mentioned that the US is connected to Satan and there is no need for calling up for violence.


    We are just talking about a movie and the ideas in it - no more, no less and certainly no Satan.
    We came in peace, for all mankind - Apollo 11

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    I guess I'm Un-Canadian: No Beer, No Hockey, No Paul Martin!
    Posts
    656
    Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
    Are you ok, Kaiddin? Have you had a bad day or something?
    No just getting tired of the same old garbage.


    Nowhere was mentioned that the US is connected to Satan and there is no need for calling up for violence.


    We are just talking about a movie and the ideas in it - no more, no less and certainly no Satan.
    You see, Evan, I got the point a long time ago that you have a very low opinion of the United States. You don't like the administration, its foreign policy, its domestic policy, the cut of Bush's hair, the shape of Rumsfeld's nose, the sound Chenney makes when he stands up, the fact that they are Republicans and they don't have the same opinion as you do on Iraq.

    Lets double it because of the higher density - that would be 1600 dead. But in the US its 12000!!

    There has to be something wrong.
    So what are you saying here? Americans are barbarians? No must be that damned administration again.

    Basically I'm just sick and tired of reading the same crap. Believe it or not I would be just as sick and tired if someone came on everyday and said that Chretien was evil, or Canada. Or even that Chretien was a god or Canada is a paradise.

    When you have made your position obvious, why belabour the point? Why not try to go a day without trying to point out the errors of the American way. Tell us about Germany. But remember even chocolate gets sickening if that is all you get to eat!

    A friend of mine told be a German term for someone who isn't happy unless they are pointing out someone else's problems. I wish I could remember what it was.

    This is not intended as a personal attack. You asked what my problem was and I have tried to explain it. When I came back I deleted all of the people that I had killfiled, I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. The heat of the moment might have led to a hasty decision on my part. But I may have to start with the killfiling again. Not because I disagree with someone's opinions but because I question someones motives. And before I get slammed for picking on Evan, he is not the only one that may find a position in my killfile, should I decide to use it, and he has an opinion opposite to Evan's.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those
    who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."
    Dante Alighieri

    "A day without sunshine is like, you know, night."
    Sandra

    "Michael Moore is reminiscent of a heavy-handed Leni Riefenstahl, who glorified Nazism in the 1930s." Peter Worthington, Toronto Sun.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Soviet Canuckistan
    Posts
    3,802
    Originally posted by Kaiddin
    . . . dealing with a minor movie industry person who makes minor movies that only a certain section of society wastes their time on.

    If this idiot were to die tomorrow, would he be remembered on Monday let alone in 20 years? Well only if Charlton Heston shot him!
    Well as one of the certain section of society that wastes my time with Michael Moore (and his movies, and books and TV shows) I think he would be remembered if he were to die.

    While you might not like what he does or his dog and pony show, it is only used to expose the dog and pony show of those he is targeting.

    I will not fault him for making errors as he is only human. Certainly I will not use his errors as a grounds to throw out all of his arguments.

    This is something both the right and left tend to do. "Ah ha! I have found one leak in your argument or one mistake and will focus on it to bring down your credibility." Etc. . .

    Now I am not saying that Kaidin is doing this, I think you all know me well enough to know that I have no problems being blunt with people.

    Oh and evan as someone who has watched you and others bash each other back and forth, give it a rest for a couple of days. I say this with as much love and concern as I can muster.

    Your message is being lost in the never ending fight that turns many of us off. Left or right.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Bremen, Germany
    Posts
    1,924
    Originally posted by Kaiddin
    No just getting tired of the same old garbage.


    You see, Evan, I got the point a long time ago that you have a very low opinion of the United States. You don't like the administration, its foreign policy, its domestic policy, the cut of Bush's hair, the shape of Rumsfeld's nose, the sound Chenney makes when he stands up, the fact that they are Republicans and they don't have the same opinion as you do on Iraq.

    So what are you saying here? Americans are barbarians? No must be that damned administration again.

    Well where to begin?

    You are right, I have a low opinion of the US policy, maybe because it was far better in the past - before I got disillusioned. But what you defnitely got wrong is that I have something against the US - it is a nice country with good people in it. And its not the Us politicians I do not trust, but it is politicians in general. If you read my posts more thoroughly, I often point out German politicians who also comitted wrongdoings, e.g. Mr. Koch, Mr. Scharping, Mr. Rau our own President who essentially stole 100000 DEM, etc.

    And you are right I repeat it over and over again - like many I know over and over again ignore facts and are simply not critical of their governments, ours included.

    Additionally if you read my earlier posts in this thread you will see that I explicitely wrote that the government is not to be blamed for the gun-kills in the US. Because it was shown that neither gun-laws nor other prejudices about crime seem to fit the situation and therefore I said - there has to be something wrong. Not morally speaking not valuing at all, just stating there is a problem. Alright?

    I did not mean to attack any US citizen personally nor Bush or any other of your politicians.


    If you like make up a new thread where you can throw all the mud you want at me or at the German government- I mean that seriously - if it helps you feel better afterwards.
    We came in peace, for all mankind - Apollo 11

  15. #30

    Question

    Oh and evan as someone who has watched you and others bash each other back and forth, give it a rest for a couple of days. I say this with as much love and concern as I can muster.

    Your message is being lost in the never ending fight that turns many of us off. Left or right.
    Basically I'm just sick and tired of reading the same crap.

    When you have made your position obvious, why belabour the point?
    Yes.

    If you like make up a new thread where you can throw all the mud you want at me or at the German government- I mean that seriously
    This was not said.

    This is not intended as a personal attack.
    Do I no understand????

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •