9 Rings for mortal men

[toadkiller]

Hi -

Nobody has started the "plot hook" thread for LOTR yet so I thought I would.

- The Ring of Power is gone and the "lesser rings" have been much reduced, but not actually destroyed. Now that the Elf rings are gone over the sea the the 9 rings of mortal man are the greatest items of power left in Middle Earth, if they could be found.

A new shadow has come in search of these and other tokens of evil...a lesser shadow than in days gone by, but less too are the powers to strive against it....

One of the 9 is said to have fallen in the field before the White City with the Nazgul King....

The other 8 are in Mordor...where the shadows still remain....

[Evan van Eyk]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there was no Ring at the Witchkings hand and on no other Nazgul's. Sauron had to take the rings of them if not to loose control over them because of the loss of the One. But at least to Tolkien mythology the nine Rings are worthless if not destroyed. Baradur was destroyed because with Sauron's fall his might disappeared , the might he created Baradur with as well as the Nine Rings, done by Annatar - Sauron in disguise. The only reason why the three Rings were not destroyed is that Sauron has not touched them, although they were created using his techniques. But that was different with the Nine. He touched them and actually created them to enslave Men - successfully. But with him gone, their power vanished as well, more dramatically than with the Elven Rings.

There are no Rings of power left in Middle - Earth. That chapter is over.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
There are no Rings of power left in Middle - Earth. That chapter is over.

Not necessarily true. Some of the Dwarven rings could have escaped destruction and could still be out there somewhere, perhaps as part of a Dragon-hoard or lost in the wild.

And there could be any number of lesser 'magical' rings, perhaps forged as test runs to the real Rings of Power. Depends on what you want to make of your chronicle.

[toadkiller]

Hmph


Where do we get that the Fell Rider's did not have their rings with them? It seems that they'd lose much power without them.

But if that's what the Prof said....

What I was going for was not so much that they had the same power as before - just that if one were to gather all nine together again then "evil plot device" is let lose... giving the PC's something to prevent.

Could work with Dwarf rings too....

[Calcoran]

... <I><B>And Eleven Rings for the half-men in their burrows of sand ... </B></I>
Beware, the hobbit ringwraiths are acoming!


Yeah baby yeah!

[Evan van Eyk]

Originally posted by Ineti
Not necessarily true. Some of the Dwarven rings could have escaped destruction and could still be out there somewhere, perhaps as part of a Dragon-hoard or lost in the wild.

And there could be any number of lesser 'magical' rings, perhaps forged as test runs to the real Rings of Power. Depends on what you want to make of your chronicle.

Of course there are less magical rings but the Dwarven rings took the same fate as the nine-ones. They were created by Sauron as well to seduce the Dwarves, which did not work, because he understimated their longing for gold...

However Gandalf clearly says that all Dwarven rings are taken care of - they are destroyed by Dragons or taken by Sauron. But I have to admit that I did not stick to this myself- my group found one once. They were not so happy about it, and even less happy about some strange black rider which followed them. They were able to destroy the ring with the 'help' of a dragon, though.

[toadkiller]

OK -

I've just finished re-reading LOTR, where do you get that the Riders don't still have their rings? The implication I get from the books and afterwords are that they do. Also - I would imagine that taking of their rings would greatly decrease their power as I said above.


AND

If the Big S takes the rings back and the wraith's power does not decrease then he can give them to 9 new men and start turning them into Ringwraiths too. 9, 18, 27,.....

BUT

I really hoped this thread would inspire some folks to add other plot ideas - anybody? I'd like to see them - despite loving Middle Earth I still can't see setting a game there, prove me wrong!

[Evan van Eyk]

Maybe it is in the Appendix somewehre. However, it is easy to see. If you re-read the part where Frodo is attacked by the Nazgul at Weathertop - he should see the Nazgul's Ring, if he wears one, because he himself is a ringbearer.

However as far as I know Sauron took them to have control over them. Without the ruling ring they are not bound to him. However he cannot give the rings to another one - that would make the 'first' owner die. There can be only one ring-wraith per ring. Comparable to the One. As long at it remains, Sauron remains.

[Calcoran]

He he ... Sauron as an uber-ring-wraith ... interesting idea .

You know, there could be something to dig there ... maybe Sauron had to forge a few rings before managing to craft The One ... rings more powerful than the 9 and 7 lesser ones, but not fit for what he planned ... could be combined with what was said about him having a daughter of some sort (cf. some other thread on the boards) ... hmmm ...

[Evan van Eyk]

Is that daughter thing based on something official? I heard rumors that Tolkien actually planned some sequel before he died.

However I actually would not use Rings any more. Any ring touched by Sauron ceases to exist and anything different would just not be evil enough. Besides it would be only lame copy of the book itself. Just think of something new. If everything else fails, try and search in real mythology - I guess there is enough ideas.

E.g. how a bout some evil overlord, who bathed in dragon blood, like Siegfried ( German legend, Nibelungen Saga ), which makes him virtually invulnerable. But there is one spot left, due to a leave which fell on his back...


In the South there can be numerous mysteries, some evil sect, which found out about some of Morgoth mysteries or digged out a Balrog or something. There is plenty of room I guess.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
Is that daughter thing based on something official? I heard rumors that Tolkien actually planned some sequel before he died.

The daughter thing was someone else's creation, I think there's a write-up in one of these posts somewhere.

Tolkien did have notes for a new story. You can read an article about it here.

[Evan van Eyk]

Thank you that is interesting.

[Thror]

All of the Rings of Power (the 20 Great Rings and all of the un-numbered 'lesser rings') were forged in Eregion in the Second Age, under the tutalage of Sauron (in disguise). Although the Three were made by Celebrimbor himself, without Sauron's aid, they were still made with skills learned from him.

The Three would be subject to The One, if Sauron had it. All things made with The Three would be corrupted by Sauron and controlled by him. The Holders of the Three would be controlled by Sauron. When the ONe was destroyed, The Three lost all power, that is why Elrond, Galadriel, et al. sailed West: They could no longer ward of the decay of time in their realms (Tolkien Letters #141).

Sauron held The Nine (Tolkien Letters #246). The Nine were also useless after the destruction of the One, because they were ALL bound to it.

Of The Seven, three were retained by Sauron, four were (beleived) consumed by Dragon Fire. Nontheless, when The One was gone, they were useless.

It is unknown how many of the lesser rings ("Mere Essays in the Craft" (Fellowship of the Ring, Book I Chapter 2 "Shadow of the Past")) were made, or how many Sauron captured when Eregion was destroyed (Second Age 1697). While not as powerful as the Three, they also had the primary power to 'hold back time'. They were not D&D style 'FireBall' rings and such. After Sauron captured 16 Great Rings (7+9) and lesser rings, he 'warped' them, turning them to evil. He confired the power of invisibility to all of them and gave them power to control others. It also allowed him to easily control and read the minds of those who wore them (Unfortunately, neither invisibility or control worked on Dwarves, which is why he spent an Age and a half taking them back).

I do not know why he did not 're-issue The Nine, after the Nazgul were formed. maybe they are 'tied' to their rings just like he was. Maybe if they were re'issued, the Wraiths would fight over the rings (Possessive ownership was a trait of all ringbearers).

If you want more info on the Rings of Power, let me know.

[toadkiller]

"Possessive ownership" is why I figure that the Nazgul were actually holding on their rings....

I've been digging and can't really find "proof" that they were not wearing them. Frodo didn't see them - but then again I think he was looking at the swords!

[Thror]

Tolkien explicitly stated in the above mentioned Letter that Sauron held the Nine.