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Thread: Oh, good grief...

  1. #1
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    Oh, good grief...

    Just when I thought the nightmare was over...

    While I was in a store today, my gaze happened to fall over the cover of this week's TV Guide.

    One of the headlines reads as follows:

    CAN STAR TREK BE SAVED?

    Groan. Gargh. Ack. Cough. Choke. Barf.

    For all you Enterprise and Nemesis bashers out there, congratulations; you have gotten your message across.

    As for my response: good grief, Charlie Brown.
    Last edited by erhershman; 02-27-2003 at 06:23 PM.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

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  2. #2
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    As one who is a fan of Enterprise I'm also freely critical. For example, I like the portrayal of Vulcans and haven't found any horrible continuity errors. Yet at the same time I haven't found Enterprise to be engaging of late. For the most part I've found it to be a little too safe, except when it decides to be "sexy", in which case it is immature.

    But that's just my opinion.

    That said, Trek does need to be saved. I'm not talking quality, I'm talking ratings. Two consecutive box-office disappointments, declining ratings for Enterprise. Whatever the cause, Trek is not healthy. Trek needs to make money to continue. The Federation may not need money, but Viacom does.

    I don't think a bunch of bashers on the internet are responsible for the poor ratings of late. I've lots of friends who are Trek fans - not obsessive Trekkies, but fans - and they don't hang out on the internet reading about Trek all the time - and most of them have, quite frankly, lost interest in Trek. These are the fans that Trek needs back, or people like them. They are the ones that made TNG the success it was.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Oh, good grief...

    Originally posted by erhershman
    CAN STAR TREK BE SAVED?

    Groan. Gargh. Ack. Cough. Choke. Barf.

    For all you Enterprise and Nemesis bashers out there, congratulations; you have gotten your message across.
    Ratings and box office results are clear, objective indicators that the franchise is not doing well. How can it be a bad thing for Paramount to realize this? It knows the Star Trek franchise is a cash cow if handled properly. What it must now determine is how to get back to that pleasant, money making state. And it can't do that if questions aren't asked: why are ratings dropping, and why was Nemesis box office so poor? For at least attempting to bring that issue out into the light where it needs to be, I think TVG has done Trek fans a service.

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    Re: Re: Oh, good grief...

    Originally posted by Fesarius
    why are ratings dropping, and why was Nemesis box office so poor? For at least attempting to bring that issue out into the light where it needs to be, I think TVG has done Trek fans a service.

    Why are ratings so poor?

    Because a large majority of Trek fans have standards of ultra-perfection and refuse to watch anything that isn't 100% dead-on. They refuse to accept that cliches and reused storylines are a part, have always been a part, and always will be a part, of Star Trek. And they refuse to believe that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga will ever turn out anything good, even though Berman has done so before (with DS9.)


    Why did Nemesis do so badly?

    Because 1) it released a few days before LotR and 2) see explanation of poor ratings above; the same applies to the movie.

    Just thought I'd get that across.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

    -Gimli, son of Gloin (The Fellowship of the Ring)

  5. #5
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    I didn't like Nem, and I'm not thrilled with Ent, though it has surprised me of late. Getting that out of the way I too think it needs to be saved, however the only way I see that as happening is to either;

    1) Put it on hiatus. I mean we have had Trek in one form or another for ten years now. It needs time to re invent itself.

    or


    2) This is split from 1. Trek needs new blood all round. To those who believe that B&B saved the franchise in the past, that maybe, but past-is-past...They need to move on and allow a 'New Order' to take over.

    If they keep being reactionary whatever they do will suck. They need new ideas, instead of re hashing old tired moral stories.

  6. #6
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    Why are ratings so poor?
    Because a large majority of Trek fans have standards of ultra-perfection and refuse to watch anything that isn't 100% dead-on
    actually, ST is profitable when properly marketed to an audience at large, not the small hard-core trek base.

    In the early 90's I knew plenty of people in my family or aquintances that followed TNG regularly and always went out for the movies; their knowledge of ST was very limited, as in associating ST with the Kirk-Spock-Bones trio, or that it takes place on a ship called "Enterprise" (be it TOS or TNG) and that was pretty much it. I'm talking the kind of folks who sometimes confuse Klingons for Romulans and vice-versa. My aunt watched it; her ex-boyfriend, the airline pilot watched it; their friend the engineer watched it, etc. Those people had a very limited knowledge of Trek and they watched TNG and went to the theaters when the movies were out.

    It's the kind of crowd that didn't go on after TNG ended and didn't catch onto DS9 and Voy. Today the people I mentionned above have no idea that Enterprise even exists, or that there was a new ST movie out there around Xmas called 'Nemesis'. Also, First Contact did well but it DID get good reviews, even from the usual ST detractors. It drew in a considerable number of non-fans in. That helps.


    And they refuse to believe that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga will ever turn out anything good, even though Berman has done so before (with DS9.)
    I partly agree here; as I once posted I think that many great things have happened under Berman's helm.

    As one who is a fan of Enterprise I'm also freely critical. For example, I like the portrayal of Vulcans and haven't found any horrible continuity errors. Yet at the same time I haven't found Enterprise to be engaging of late. For the most part I've found it to be a little too safe, except when it decides to be "sexy", in which case it is immature.
    My feeling exactly; Enterprise is NOT a bad show but it is not that engaging either.

  7. #7
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    Fesarius has got it right: if the box office and ratings aren't there, the franchise is in trouble -- like it or not.

    I like Enterprise, on the whole -- better than Voyager. Nemesis, on the other hand, was pretty average, at best, but the real killer -- "Hey, guys, let's release it the week before LOTR, with the latest Bond flick in the theaters, and a bunch of other stuff out there."

    Bad timing, but also a bad movie.
    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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    The TV Guide article was actually pretty good. And the 'How To Improve Enterprise' article was right on target.

    Trek isn't dead. But it's certainly on life support.

    However, I do think that the recent Cease Fire episode was quite awesome. The best so far.

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    Originally posted by Anomaly
    The TV Guide article was actually pretty good. And the 'How To Improve Enterprise' article was right on target.
    Could you give me an overview? What did it say- I didn't actually read it, just saw the headline on the front cover.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

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    Arrow

    Hey, all I can say I really wanted to like ENTERPRISE and NEMESIS. I wanted to be impressed, and that's a hard thing to do since I've watched nearly all of the past shows and films.

    The way they treated the Romulans in NEMESIS is the same way Braga treated the Borg in VOYAGER (lame villains).

    Only recently did ENTERPRISE have been able to impress me from "Stigma" to "Cease Fire" episodes (although the episode featuring the Tholian lives me a bit down since it is based on TCW). But when I caught wind they're going to feature Borgs (not all of them were destroyed during First Contact), I got turned off.

    So, forgive me for being a longtime fan who have seen practically everything there is about Star Trek. But if you can still impress me, then you will get me to stay onboard. Simple as that.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by REG
    Hey, all I can say I really wanted to like ENTERPRISE and NEMESIS. I wanted to be impressed, and that's a hard thing to do since I've watched nearly all of the past shows and films.

    The way they treated the Romulans in NEMESIS is the same way Braga treated the Borg in VOYAGER (lame villains).

    Only recently did ENTERPRISE have been able to impress me from "Stigma" to "Cease Fire" episodes (although the episode featuring the Tholian lives me a bit down since it is based on TCW). But when I caught wind they're going to feature Borgs (not all of them were destroyed during First Contact), I got turned off.

    So, forgive me for being a longtime fan who have seen practically everything there is about Star Trek. But if you can still impress me, then you will get me to stay onboard. Simple as that.
    Pretty much the way I think as well. If they can pull a really stunning ep out the hat somewhere in the future I'll hang around. Ah, REG could you clarify something? TCW?

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    Originally posted by Phantom
    Pretty much the way I think as well. If they can pull a really stunning ep out the hat somewhere in the future I'll hang around.
    Phantom, no offense, but sitting around waiting for a 100% perfect episode is like standing in the middle of a field during a lightning storm waiting for the lightning to hit you. You can't get it 100% dead on, so you have to content yourself with watching the lightning blast all around you. It's still amazing, but it never quite hits where you want.
    What I'm saying is that there will never be a PERFECT episode, so you and people like you can sit around waiting for that episode that will never come, or you can learn to like what you've got. Because NO episode, repeat NO episode of any Star Trek show, or any other show for that matter, has been so good that I would describe it as "perfect."

    And BTW, define "really stunning." You seem to know what you want from an ENT episode, so what is it?
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

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    Originally posted by erhershman
    Could you give me an overview? What did it say- I didn't actually read it, just saw the headline on the front cover.
    Well, I don't read TV Guide as a rule, but I picked it up to read the article. It was three pages long. I gave it away to a co-worker after reading it once.

    From memory, however: It said that this was supposed to be 'something new', yet pointed out it just feels like the same-old-Trek we've had for 15 years. Give Archer some teeth - as right now he's more like 'Captain Crunch'. Crank up the action a bit more.

    There's more, but I don't recall it immediately. Maybe someone has the article to quote?

    It's stuff I've heard from fans before, really, nothing too new. But they were all pretty valid points.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Anomaly
    Well, I don't read TV Guide as a rule, but I picked it up to read the article. It was three pages long. I gave it away to a co-worker after reading it once.

    From memory, however: It said that this was supposed to be 'something new', yet pointed out it just feels like the same-old-Trek we've had for 15 years. Give Archer some teeth - as right now he's more like 'Captain Crunch'. Crank up the action a bit more.

    There's more, but I don't recall it immediately. Maybe someone has the article to quote?

    It's stuff I've heard from fans before, really, nothing too new. But they were all pretty valid points.
    I'm not saying that those complaints that people have aren't valid points, I'm just saying I don't agree with their assumption that "Trek is Dead" because of those points.
    "Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."

    -Gimli, son of Gloin (The Fellowship of the Ring)

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Phantom

    Ah, REG could you clarify something? TCW?
    TCW = Temporal Cold War

    Three spiteful little words that I have against ENTERPRISE right now. And for longtime posters, you all know how I feel about Braga handling any temporal-themed stories.

    And for the record, I'm not looking for the perfect episode. I'm looking for good episodes or film with sensible storyline that impress me.
    Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

    "My philosophy is 'you don't need me to tell you how to play -- I'll just provide some rules and ideas to use and get out of your way.'"
    -- Monte Cook

    "Min/Maxing and munchkinism aren't problems with the game: they're problems with the players."
    -- excerpt from Guardians of Order's Role-Playing Game Manifesto

    A GENERATION KIKAIDA fan

    DISCLAIMER: I Am Not A Lawyer

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