i need scale

**kong** · 03-03-2003, 10:49 AM

is there any scale whatsoeer to any of the maps within the core book? this information is sorely needed and despoerately lacking. how can i calculate travel distances without it? waht an oversight!

i need to know how far from the river's edge mirkwood is and there is no way of finding this out.

**Ineti** · 03-03-2003, 11:02 AM

The Maps of Middle-earth has a scale bar at the bottom of every map, FWIW. It's a nice reference.

In the core rulebook, looking at the map on pages 34-35, and using some measurements from the travel matrix on page 253, and using a good old-fashioned ruler, it looks like 1 inch on the map equals about 30 leagues (90 miles).

I based this on the fact that Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul are about 1/2 an inch apart on the map, and the travel matrix lists those two cities as being 15 leagues apart.

Minas Tirith and Pelargir are about an inch and a third apart, pretty much equating the correct distance of 43 leagues.

Of course, this is as the crow flies, not necessarily actual ground distances.

As for the inside front and back covers, if we use the same idea, the measurement is about 3/4 of an inch = 15 leagues.

May not be 100 percent accurate, but it's close enough for my game.

**kong** · 03-03-2003, 11:11 AM

even basic information is missing from the core book. there is no way im wasting money on a set of maps just to get a scale. thats just poor.

**Ineti** · 03-03-2003, 11:15 AM

bloke/cuspofdreaming/martin, is that you?

**Jason Durall** · 03-03-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Ineti
bloke/cuspofdreaming/martin, is that you?

I was wondering the same myself...

**Grutos** · 03-05-2003, 10:19 AM

Kong does post a very valid concern. These books are not free, they put a fairly big dent in the B33R fund. When I buy a book that costs upwards of $40 (USD), I want it to be as close to perfect as possible. One of the biggest gripes that I have is the errata - I know things will change, but at what point is Decipher going to say, "You unforntunately made the mistake of purchasing version 1.x. Here is the updated version 2.x with the errata inserted. BTW, it's free of charge. Thanks for being a valued gamer. 'Game on'!"

Prolly not to likely. What they will prolly say is, "Guess what, thanks for sending us lots of your cash for a book that we have updated again and again and again. Please continue to send us your cash."

I may not agree with Kong's tone, but he makes a very valid point. I have some other things that I should probably put $40 towards than a DnD book - when I do put that $40 toward a DnD book, I want it to be correct. Kinda like buying College Text Books all over again - "Nope, can't use last year's version, please give us another $80. Oh, you're returning your $80 book, here's $5. Thanks, have a nice day."

**Ineti** · 03-05-2003, 10:29 AM

I can't see Decipher's need and use of errata any worse than Wizard of the Coast's handling of D&D 3rd edition.

Or Star Wars d20 for that matter.

But I do understand the concerns.

**kong** · 03-05-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Ineti
I can't see Decipher's need and use of errata any worse than Wizard of the Coast's handling of D&D 3rd edition. Or Star Wars d20 for that matter.

But I do understand the concerns.

i dont think that you do.

the argument that other companies are slap happy in their approach to games is a straw man argument; it doesnt excuse D that other companies have low standards.

i canno understand what value there is or what can be gained from tolerating it either. lotr has enough problems to warrant some real inquiry but this will ever happen so long as people like you give them the green light to continue - and that is exaclty wnat you are doing. there is a point where there are just too many mistakes and where companies shoudlnt be forgiven for making these mistakes. its only because of the fanboy and small industry nature of gaming that this happens - it would never happen in any other field. if you brought a buggy pc game you would immediately take it back - we wouldnt even be having this discussion. there is no difference. D have done us down and its just not good enough. it is perfectly clear to me that they are only cashing in on the movies, everything supports this and nothing counters it. this is sad.

**Lt Cmdr Matt** · 03-05-2003, 02:37 PM

I don't have any authority in this forum whatsoever so this post is not from a moderator. Just a person.

You need to calm down kong. If you don't buy the books thats fine with me. Free country so that doesn't matter but don't accuse Decipher of crimes that are way off base. They are not bringing their own line to a demise on purpose.

**kong** · 03-05-2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Lt Cmdr Matt
I don't have any authority in this forum whatsoever so this post is not from a moderator. Just a person.

You need to calm down kong. If you don't buy the books thats fine with me. Free country so that doesn't matter but don't accuse Decipher of crimes that are way off base. They are not bringing their own line to a demise on purpose.

i havent accused anyone of any crimes and i dont see what living in a free country has to do with anything. i also think you are being very naive.

**calguard66** · 03-05-2003, 06:25 PM

Now you're just being argumentative. Just as you have the right not to purchase Decipher products, we have the right to purchase them... without having to justify that purchase to you.

I am not giving a "green light" to anybody by doing so... I am providing hours of enjoyment to my gaming group. To me the cost of the books is worth it, even with their flaws. I certainly have the imagination to fill in the gaps, as Matt tried to do for you... and got a smack for his trouble.

There is also something to be said for the fact that a company with as much experience as WotC/ TSR not putting out an "acceptable" product. If someone with that much experience can't get it quite right, one might expect Decipher to have early problems.

As for being naive, I think that you are being naive for believeing that NOT purchasing their product will influence Decipher. If you're not a customer, why should they listen to you? I doubt Mercedes has any interest in my opinion of their product... unless I buy one.

Back under your bridge.

Originally posted by kong
i havent accused anyone of any crimes and i dont see what living in a free country has to do with anything. i also think you are being very naive.

**Jason Durall** · 03-05-2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by kong
i havent accused anyone of any crimes and i dont see what living in a free country has to do with anything. i also think you are being very naive.

Is that you, martin?

**Ineti** · 03-05-2003, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by Jason Durall
Is that you, martin?

Pretty sure it is. Do a search on his screen name.

**kong** · 03-06-2003, 04:22 AM

>Now you're just being argumentative. Just as you have the right not to purchase Decipher products, we have the right to purchase them... without having to justify that purchase to you.

i think you are being defensive, not i. oeople who wave around the first amendment and make 'its a free country' their battle cry are just being hysterical. no one is stopping you from doing anything, nor are they trying to. where on aerth do you get this notion that your civil righrs are under attack. this isnt a terrorrist attack. if you want to buy the lotr rpg then do so, just be aware of what you are buying and its consequences. if D can see tht their product is flawed there is more chance of it being put right, but that ownt happen so long as people keep telling them how great it is to the point of ignoring problems.

>I am not giving a "green light" to anybody by doing so...

you miss the point entirely.

> I am providing hours of enjoyment to my gaming group. To me the cost of the books is worth it, even with their flaws. I certainly have the imagination to fill in the gaps, as Matt tried to do for you... and got a smack for his trouble.

noon got a smack, dont overreact.

the point is that you shouldnt have the fill the gaps. if you choose to do so then you are giving D carte blanche to carry on in the way they have. the bottom line is that, while you may be happy with this situation, it will ultinmately backfire because the game line will suffer.

>There is also something to be said for the fact that a company with as much experience as WotC/ TSR not putting out an "acceptable" product. If someone with that much experience can't get it quite right, one might expect Decipher to have early problems.

thats just lazy. there is no reason to assume that D cant and shouldnt do a good job; what other companies do is irrelevant since D are independent. there will always be some amount of errata, however there is a point when some becomes too much and an unacceptable level.

>As for being naive, I think that you are being naive for believeing that NOT purchasing their product will influence Decipher. If you're not a customer, why should they listen to you? I doubt Mercedes has any interest in my opinion of their product... unless I buy one.

are you serious?

if everyone thought that the rpg was a poor product not worth the price tag then D most certainly would take notice.

and i own the book, as do many who think the game has a poor standard. peopel need to vote with their wallets, and i can assure you that with poor sales and a poorreputation D would certainly be foprced to at least buck their ideas up, the same as anybody.

**Grutos** · 03-06-2003, 05:59 AM

Again - I don't condone his tone, but Kong does put some very good points on the table. If I were to purchase WarCraft III and it crashes on a regular basis, Blizzard will not only get an e-mail, but they and the store that I purchased it from will have a refund with my name on it waiting for me when I step through the door.

Not everyone is aware of official and unofficial web sites with errata posted on them. Nor do people always want to sit there and paper-match. Do other companies do this? Unfortunately, yes. Granted, mistakes happen, rules change, and patches need to be sent out. Unfortunately, we can't download the patches to be seemlessly integrated into the bound book like we can with a Diablo II 1.09 patch or NWN 1.10 to 2.x patch or Windows Update.

Hrm....thought - if we purchase the books, can we register them @ Decipher.com and then receive free updates to a *.PDF version (with bookmarks!!!!)? That way, we have given Decipher our cash, but we can also get updates that can seemlessly fit into an electronic format at least.

If we want to ask Decipher to live-up to a better than average standard, perhaps we need to present them with some viable options that we as paying customers would be happy with.

Careful on those DnD slams Ineti, I think that I have an Epic level mage or 3 waiting to teleport your Ranger to their happy-room

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