Fellowship of the Ring Sourcebook available for purchase

[Ineti]

...at Decipher's online store.

That means this product should be hitting our LGS's (at leasst in the States) within the next couple of weeks.

(The Star Trek RPG Starfleet Operations Manual is also available for sale.)

[Jason Durall]

Anyone managed to get a copy yet?

[Ineti]

A poster on Decipher's boards got a copy and posted a brief review.

And I just noticed that the assorted errata files were recently updated by Doug. Ominously, there are several entries for the FOTR sourcebook...

[kong]

given the choice between buying the sourcebook which apparently has its own share of mistakes and is of what i regard questionable use (who honestly needs stats for aragorn) and buying the fotr itself for about 1/3 the price of the D book, i would choose the latter - or indeed any tolkien reference book - anytime. from what i can gather the fotr book wont have certain maps in (unless they are beign copied in the 2nd map set - again how many mapsets do you need: cant they produce one concise set?)

i just dont see the point. it seems more cosmetic than useful, especiallyas it wastes pages discussing the differences between the movie (information you can find in any online pter jackson interview) which will be of no use to any narrator whatseover.

far better would have been to produce regional guides to the locations and disposed of cashing in on the characters from the films, which this book seems to be for the most part.

yes this is negative. D are negative.

[Phantom]

Jeesh, and people call me a complainer.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by kong
(who honestly needs stats for aragorn)

Actually, I'm surprised. Your frequent comments about being unable to make a character on the same level as Aragorn would make one think you'd be at least a little interested in the official interpretation of the character.

i just dont see the point. it seems more cosmetic than useful, especiallyas it wastes pages discussing the differences between the movie (information you can find in any online pter jackson interview) which will be of no use to any narrator whatseover.

As hard as it may believe, some folks who play the game have only seen the movies and not read the books. Or vice verse. The comparison caters to these folks by giving them a chance to see both sides, so to speak.

[Greg Davis]

Well, I picked up my copy from my FLGS today, and I have to say that, at first glance, I'm quite impressed. The characters seem to be recreated well enough, and were statted out with, I feel, the appropriate number of advancements. Also, I like the inclusion of adventure capsules for PC's to take part in, as well as the location maps. Very handy stuff, and something that gives me a bit more hope for the Moria boxed set.

So, for my part, I'll simply say, "Good work, Decipher!". Now, if Fell Beasts and Wondrous Magic and the rest would hit the shelves, I'd be perfectly happy.



Greg

[Ineti]

Just got my copy tonight too. It looks great and feels great (nice cover paper and interior pages).

I was a touch disappointed in the interior cartography maps, but I think that's because I'm spoiled rotten on the Daniel Reeve maps from the Maps of Middle-Earth set.

Nice to see the assorted characters statted out, though I do have a couple issues. I know some of them have been errata'ed already, and kudos to Doug for posting the corrections so quickly.

My problem is that many of the characters have skills rankings well above the system-imposed cap of 12 ranks max. per skill. No explanation given either. I guess some NPCs are just allowed to break the rules.

Nice use of stills throughout, though, IMO, some of the key character stills are less than flattering. Boromir and Elrond are the first two that spring to mind.

And I noticed that the overview of the story, in the film section, only seems to cover what happened in the theatrical version rather than the extended edition DVD. I wonder if Decipher's license only covers the theatrical releases of the films... ?

Anyway, I was happy with the product overall. I'll give it an 8 out of 10 and an encouraging thumbs-up.

[kong]

>Actually, I'm surprised. Your frequent comments about being unable to make a character on the same level as Aragorn would make one think you'd be at least a little interested in the official interpretation of the character.

any game that is based on a licensed property should support the creation of the source characters (as the buffy rpg does) right out of the core book. those characters should be the default and rules for playing 'weaker' characters should be an option - not the other way round. this is just obvious to me when the attraction of playing lotr is to be able to play similar kinds of characters. i have abnsolutely no interest in having people play as those characters themselves or in seeing how they may be done, the stats are useless to me and i certainly wont be paying just to see how they were made. if a license based game cannot support that initially then its failed in one major area immediately.

since my players will not be fighting or playing them, and i doubt many people will be, i find the space devoted to their stats and writeups wasted. that information can be found anywhere, not least of all in the book itself.

>As hard as it may believe, some folks who play the game have only seen the movies and not read the books. Or vice verse. The comparison caters to these folks by giving them a chance to see both sides, so to speak.

so they would be better off buying the novels, which would be cheaper, than the sourcebook.

whether people have seen the movies only is irrelevant.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by kong
whether people have seen the movies only is irrelevant.

You know, I can't think of any way to respond politely to such a statement. And here I thought I'd seen everything...

[Lt Cmdr Matt]

Originally posted by Doug Burke
You know, I can't think of any way to respond politely to such a statement. And here I thought I'd seen everything...

Well Doug atleast you do have manners and learn to not say anything at all if it wasn't nice. :P I hope we can rerail this thread once more.

IN an attempt to do so...

I don't think that I shall buy the book yet, since I am heavier on the Trek side. Eventually though I will and it is a very positive sign that Decipher has dealt with their or their publishing company's issues.

[Greg Davis]

Quick question for you, Doug (and something that Ineti alluded to in an earlier post)...

What about those characters who have skill ranks that are above 12? These would include the following characters/skills:

- Arwen: Persuade +17. I'm presuming that this has something to do with the Elven Form racial ability, but I'm not for certain. As an aside, it would be nice if it was noted where, actually, the listed bonus for skills comes from. Is it just from ranks, or does it include attribute modifiers, racial abilities, edges, and so forth. It seems like some characters might have this included, whereas some don't. Anyway, moving onward...

- Tom Bombadil: A whole variety of skills at +14 or higher

- Elendil: 3 skills at +14 or better

And the list goes on...I really don't see the need to list them all.

Also, I noted that Gandalf has an Order Ability called 'Staff of Power' that, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't appeared in any Lord of the Rings product thus far. Is this going to appear in Fell Beasts & Wondrous Magic, or perhaps somewhere else? If permissible, could you provide some information on this Order Ability (I'm presuming it's from the Wizard Elite Order)? Also, along that same line of questioning, I'm curious about Gandalf and Saruman's staves. Are they gifts from the Valar for their duties while in Middle-earth, or are they items that could be gained through an Order ability (such as Staff of Power)?

Finally, I'm curious about the game-mechanic the developers used to create the Half-elven characters. While the purist in me understands full well that, aside from the Tolkien-created characters there should be no Half-elves, the Narrator in me has to deal with this sort of eventuality with my players who are interested in portraying a Half-elven character. I would imagine that, along the lines of Tolkien's own portrayal of Half-elves, that such a character would either be Human or Elven (having been made to choose which path they would follow), but the developers may have different ideas. Also, how did they create characters like Arwen who, while a Half-Elf, has a variety of Elven blood (Noldo and Sinda), along with her Human (Dunadan) blood? I had envisioned that, in terms of game mechanics, a character like that would be created along the same lines as a Mixed Species character from Star Trek, but the incorporation of 3 species seems to make this a bit more difficult.

I know that it might seem like I'm really nitpicking and asking for extraneous information, but I'm really quite curious.

Thanks, and sorry about the rambling nature of the post!



Greg, who, for some reason, always imagines J.R.R. Tolkien rolling over in his grave whenever he starts to plan a Lord of the Rings campaign...

-------------------------------

As an edited note, I noticed the errata for Gandalf's Intimidate skill, so I removed that bit. However, having looked at the Errata I noticed that Aragorn shouldn't have Love (Arwen) as a flaw. I'm presuming this is because Love isn't a listed flaw, but it certainly seems to be a suitable flaw to introduce into The Lord of the Rings. Along those same lines, it could be thought that Sam might have that sort of flaw for Frodo (though, perhaps, not in the same way that Aragorn might have for Arwen). I realize that he has Fealty to Frodo, but it seems that his devotion to Frodo runs a bit deeper than perhaps the Fealty flaw might indicate. Again, just a thought and a query. I'll slink away quietly now...

[kong]

Originally posted by Doug Burke
You know, I can't think of any way to respond politely to such a statement. And here I thought I'd seen everything...

the movies are based on the book, they arent different they are telling the same story albeit within the constraints and nature of the medium. discussing the movie within the sourcebook is a waste of time. its space that could have been devoted to :

>Also, I noted that Gandalf has an Order Ability called 'Staff of Power' that, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't appeared in any Lord of the Rings product thus far.

isnt it a bit rude to introduce rules in a book without having explained them first (or at least within the same book)? obviously D expects you to buy the magic book in order to find the rules for this one ability at least. that is really really cheap.

>If permissible, could you provide some information on this Order Ability (I'm presuming it's from the Wizard Elite Order)?

that would be the least they could do - and its a very typical trait from decipher; its the sort of thing they did with their cardames. its also one of the reasons i stopped playing them. being led by the nopse like a donkey really sucks.

>Also, along that same line of questioning, I'm curious about Gandalf and Saruman's staves. Are they gifts from the Valar for their duties while in Middle-earth, or are they items that could be gained through an Order ability (such as Staff of Power)?

essentially yhe former. the orders of magicians as presented in the corebook are an invention of D; a contrivance in order to allow players who want to be 'gandalf' (which is essentially the truth) to be characters of that ilk, since there are no magicians on middle earth in the way presented by the order descriptions. the istari were unique and humans (indeed most cretures beyond the realm of elves) arent able to cast magic. the idea that narrators allow hordes of players all running round with staffs of power is quite chilling, but it seems that anything goes.

>Finally, I'm curious about the game-mechanic the developers used to create the Half-elven characters.


im not really sure there are any truly half elven characters; elrond at least chose to become immortal. technically he is now elvish. arwen is immortal as is glorfindel and legolas as far as i know.

>While the purist in me understands full well that, aside from the Tolkien-created characters there should be no Half-elves, the Narrator in me has to deal with this sort of eventuality with my players who are interested in portraying a Half-elven character.

perhaps such narrators should try harder to explain the realities that set middle earth aside from the reality that the player's envisage or desire. if you are going to warp tolkien out of all recognition, then why play in the first place.

the deeper issue is really about how strong the rules are. a good ruleset should be able to simulate anything from within the cource material and support any feasible or reasonable extrapolation made by individual narrators. it is no good having rules that dont cover anything and sourcebooks that constatnly introduce new powers and rules for each character within and then expect narrators to make everything up themselves because the rules dont cover it. this is done already under the guise of being 'cinematic'.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by Greg Davis
What about those characters who have skill ranks that are above 12?

It has been noted elsewhere that occasionally magic may be used to raise a skill above the normal moximum. The Witch-King's Intimidate (Fear) skill is a perfect example from the Core Book.

Also, I noted that Gandalf has an Order Ability called 'Staff of Power' that, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't appeared in any Lord of the Rings product thus far. Is this going to appear in Fell Beasts & Wondrous Magic, or perhaps somewhere else? If permissible, could you provide some information on this Order Ability (I'm presuming it's from the Wizard Elite Order)? Also, along that same line of questioning, I'm curious about Gandalf and Saruman's staves. Are they gifts from the Valar for their duties while in Middle-earth, or are they items that could be gained through an Order ability (such as Staff of Power)?

I believe this should be Staff. I'll have to double-check in the manuscript when I get home.

As an aside, there are no new Order Abilities in Fell Beasts & Wondrous Magic. The focus is on creature stats (both of fell beasts and woodland creatures) and magic items.

Finally, I'm curious about the game-mechanic the developers used to create the Half-elven characters.

Now this is beyond my purview and experience, Greg. I wasn't present when the characters were actually designed, so I honestly don't know the particulars of their thought processes or what Racial template they used (the same goes for Gandalf and Saruman). However, I do know they would have some sort of internal logic. The characters were made using the creation and advncement rules from the Core Book. Unfortunately, I can't tell you what logic they used...

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by kong
the movies are based on the book, they arent different they are telling the same story albeit within the constraints and nature of the medium.

And yet, they are different enough that folks talk about "Arwen's Multple Personalities" and certain characters have been edited out. Those who have only seen the movie deserve just as much respect and attention as those who read the books first.

isnt it a bit rude to introduce rules in a book without having explained them first (or at least within the same book)?

I suppose so. But since that's not the case here, it's a non-issue.

obviously D expects you to buy the magic book in order to find the rules for this one ability at least. that is really really cheap.

Check out my reply to Greg for the truth about this.