The good 'ol captain slams Star Trek

[Snake_Plissken]

well, I thought I'd pour some more oil on the fire


"Shatner Slams Stale 'Star Trek'


Acting veteran William Shatner may have gained fame by starring in the Star Trek series - but he believes the show is now "old hat." The 71-year-old star first shot to fame as Captain James T. Kirk in the 1966 TV series, but now he refuses to watch the many spin-off programs and films, believing they've lost what made them great. He says, "It needs something new. The people responsible for it have lost its way and they need to find it again. They need a whole new group of talent to give a fresh approach. By doing too many things, they have lost Star Trek's way because of greed." Despite his comments, Shatner was this week reunited with many former original cast members at the TV Land Awards, in which Star Trek won the Pop Culture award. He commented, "Here I am winning a Pop Culture Award and I am disconnected with pop culture. Whenever I get on these shows and they ask about pop culture I never know what to say."


here's the link : http://us.imdb.com/PeopleNews/#3

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Whether I agree with any of his points or not (andthey're not unreasonable), the fact that he has publicy stated on numerous occasions that he simply hasn't watched any of the modern shows (TNG included), suggest to me that his opinion isn't worth squat. He's never watched them anyway

Now if he had come to that conclusion after actually watching the show, I'd listen. But even then it would only be his opinion. And from my own perspective, I'm really only interested on what I think. I still enjoy Trek, and while it certainly isn't the best show on TV anymore, it still beats out a lot of other stuff as far as I'm concerned.

[Phantom]

Well, I do agree with each and every point he has made. And I believe he is quoted as having said he hasn't watched much TNG, no Ent and skipped Nem entirely. I have watched TNG, haven't watched much Ent, and wish to God that I could get my 2 hours back from Nem.

He's an insider, he doesn't need to watch the show to have an opinion on it...He can call the writers, most of which worked on TOS, and get a reading that way.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

I disagree. It isn't his opinion if he's just parroting other people's comments.

And going by the horrendous fanfluff that characterises the Shatnerverse novels, I find it very difficult to take his opinion on what characterises a good story seriously.

He's an insider, he doesn't need to watch the show to have an opinion on it...He can call the writers, most of which worked on TOS, and get a reading that way.

Which is like saying. I believe the that Graham Hancock has proven a lost civlisation built the pyriamids, because my mate watched his program and he said so. Or blindly accepting the evolutionary theory because your friend told you it's true. Doesn't matter how valid or invalid a point may be, if you don't look at the evidence yourself you can't truly have a valid opinion, sicne you're just taking another persons word.

As I said, I don't entirely disagree with the points, but I seriously question his ability to actually have a viable opinion on the matter. He's hardly watched TNG, and hasn't watched the other modern shows. Give me a break. He's entitled to an opinion same as anyone else, but I won't take any opinion seriously when prefaced by "Well I don't actually watch, but I'm told it sucks". Which is essentially what he's saying. Though I don't doubt his opinion would change if they asked him to reprise Kirk again.

Of course, those who agree will consider it a rallying cry regardless. After all, such people don't care as long as it follows their line.

[AslanC]

Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter Which is like saying. I believe the that Graham Hancock has proven a lost civlisation built the pyriamids, because my mate watched his program and he said so.

Why you gotta drag poor Graham into this?

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

LOL, I suspect there's nothing poor about Graham Hancock. IMHO, I suspect he's made a healthy living off his 'theories'. Regardless of what I may think about his methods, you;ve got admire his persistence

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter
As I said, I don't entirely disagree with the points, but I seriously question his ability to actually have a viable opinion on the matter. He's hardly watched TNG, and hasn't watched the other modern shows. Give me a break. He's entitled to an opinion same as anyone else, but I won't take any opinion seriously when prefaced by "Well I don't actually watch, but I'm told it sucks". Which is essentially what he's saying. Though I don't doubt his opinion would change if they asked him to reprise Kirk again.

Then he has the right to say what he thinks, as we all do. I happen to agree with his points...As I have said here before. If you consider what he said (or what I said) parroting I can't do anything about it...You are parroting no matter what side an arguement you are on.

And what, you don't agree with Darwin?

And it was the Sphinx that was created by an earlier civilization, not the Pyramids.

BTW who is this Graham chap you mentioned?

[AslanC]

the book is called Finger Prints of the Gods and is a dry yet interesting read.

He takes far less license with history then say Sitchin or VonDanniken.

If you are into that sort of thing

[Rayaru]

He's just upset that Patrick Stewart out did him without breaking a sweat

[erhershman]

Originally posted by Rayaru
He's just upset that Patrick Stewart out did him without breaking a sweat

Of course. I totally disagree both with his opinions and his reasoning. He's just upset because he is no longer the "definition" of Star Trek.

And if the people behind Trek have indeed "lost their way," then it is not due to "greed" as Shatner says. Paramount Studios may be in it for the money, but I believe Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are doing what they do because they enjoy their job and they feel it is what Star Trek should be, not because of the money involve.

Feel free to disagree at your leisure.

I never like 'ol Shatner anyway. His so-called "novels" are awful. How he can claim he doesn't like the spinoffs when TNG characters play such a big part in The Return is beyond me.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by erhershman
Feel free to disagree at your leisure.

OK, but remember you asked for it.

Seriously I do agree Shatner is no writer.

There that is out of the way.

B&B not in for the cash?? Because they love what they do and the way they've taken Trek?? HHHAAAHHAHHAHAAAHHHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!!! and !! Sorry (wipes tear from eye from laughing so hard.) To use a quote from Gladiator B&B are out to suckle the whore, until they can suckle no more. When they wake up and think of Trek They see only two things $ and $. They may have saved trek in the past (HA!) sorry, but they are destroying it now. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Braga on record as saying he doesn't even watch his own show?! Oh yeah, really interested in quality there.

Also, I don't believe your like or dislike of Shatner even factors into the equation. He still has his right to say what he wants. Like the rest of us. Oh sorry forgot about the 11th commandment "Thou shalt not sayeth anything negative about Trek."

And as far as Shatner being jealous he's not the 'definition' of Trek, as far as fans like myself he still is. Picard may have been the renaissance man, Sisko the dashing 'war hero' and Janeway the accomplished scientist. Kirk (Shatner) has one title they never will have....First Captain of Trek.

Oh and their is one more title Shatner can claim that the other can't, and it is the most important. That title is....Canadian.

[erhershman]

Originally posted by Phantom
OK, but remember you asked for it.

I did indeed ask for it. Oh well, I have only myself to blame I suppose. And I never said that Shatner does not have a right to express his opinion, I just do not think his opinion is particularly credible, since he never actually watched any of the new shows very much. You share his opinion, Phantom, but yours I can at least partially accept because it's based on having actually watched the shows. Shatner is getting nowhere- bashing the rest of Trek won't get him his job back and it certainly won't make him a good actor.

B&B not in for the cash?? Because they love what they do and the way they've taken Trek?? HHHAAAHHAHHAHAAAHHHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!!! and !! Sorry (wipes tear from eye from laughing so hard.) To use a quote from Gladiator B&B are out to suckle the whore, until they can suckle no more. When they wake up and think of Trek They see only two things $ and $. They may have saved trek in the past (HA!) sorry, but they are destroying it now. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Braga on record as saying he doesn't even watch his own show?! Oh yeah, really interested in quality there.

I thought everyone's problem with B&B was about their writing ability, not their personality. Apparently it's perfectly okay to call someone "greedy" or "suckling the whore" as you put it just because they happen to be on a job that makes a lot of money. If I was the producer on ENT, would everyone say I was just in it for the money?
The problem with Trek is that it makes so much money that anyone who works on it will inevitably be accused of "doing it for the money" by somebody. If Roddenberry himself were to rise from the grave and resume command of the franchise people would say he was doing it for the bucks. I think it's beyond simply stating an opinion to attack the character of B&B by accusing them of greed when none of us actually KNOW them. We base all our opinions about them based on what they put on TV and what they say in interviews. So people should think about that before they start accusing them of wanting to squeeze money out of Trek.

Kirk (Shatner) has one title they never will have....First Captain of Trek.

And this is a qualifying factor for actually being a good character/actor, or having a credible opinion about the current state of Trek?
Shatner's whole little rant is just about his overinflated ego.

Case in point of aforementioned ego: The reason they did the episode "Amok Time" in TOS was because William Shatner started to piss and moan about how Nimoy as Spock was taking over the show and it was supposed to be about *Kirk.* So they appeased him by making Kirk save Spock's life, supposedly "enobling" Kirk in they eyes of the audience.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by erhershman



I thought everyone's problem with B&B was about their writing ability, not their personality. Apparently it's perfectly okay to call someone "greedy" or "suckling the whore" as you put it just because they happen to be on a job that makes a lot of money. If I was the producer on ENT, would everyone say I was just in it for the money?

No, but you were infering that they were in it just for their "art" which is proven false by the aforementioned fact that Braga doesn't even watch the show either or know the most basic facts about the universe. This makes me think he is more interested in pumping the franchise for all it's worth. And the more I see the quality slip in Ent the more I think this is the case. Its not a personality attack...It seems to me to be fact. However, they would need a personality to start with. Now that was an attack.

Well, maybe my opinion doesn't make him a good character actor. Hmm let's think here, what is a qualifing point in an actors life? Hmm, I know Stratford. Shatner has played in the Bard's plays in Stratford, England...Ontario...and I believe there is a Straford in the states associated with the Bard's tales. 3 of the worlds biggest and important theatrical locals. Wow! I guess anyone can claim that accomplishment. So, I guess someone of import must think he is a 'passable' actor.

[REG]

Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter

Whether I agree with any of his points or not (andthey're not unreasonable), the fact that he has publicy stated on numerous occasions that he simply hasn't watched any of the modern shows (TNG included), suggest to me that his opinion isn't worth squat. He's never watched them anyway

I'd be willing to send him tapes of VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE just so he can confirm his opinion.

[erhershman]

Originally posted by REG
I'd be willing to send him tapes of VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE just so he can confirm his opinion.

VOYAGER, I could manage too... my opinion on these board sometimes make it seem like I'm incapable of bashing Star Trek, but whenever I happen to catch a rerun of Voyager, I wonder how I ever even watched that show and actually ENJOYED IT. Alas, but I was young and foolish in those days I suppose...

And if he really wants to see ENT, I have the whole first season on tape from my VCR.