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Thread: [CODA] Starfleet Ops Manual ship comments and questions

  1. #16
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    The main problem I've seen with the ships have been mostly photon torpedo damage -- which on some ships seems about 2-3 points too high. The maneuver mods for the Savber were the only other glaring problem for me.
    I agree, my mine gripe with the stats were with the torpedoes.

  2. #17
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    Mine arrived this morning. Which is incredibly good timing, given I'm running a session tonight.

    Overall, not a bad book. As others have pointed out, a bit thin, and I would have liked a few more races (and proper NCO PC rules). But it's certainly a nice enough supplement, and I'm glad to finally have it. I'm sure it'll be useful.

    "You can't take a picture of this; it's already gone." -Nate Fisher, Six Feet Under.

  3. #18
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    SOM priced right.

    Originally posted by Phantom
    Sorry guys, once again I am the voice of negativity. Saw the book today flipped through it ...It is an awfully small book for the price. From what I saw, not worth the wait. Hope the FotR is better.
    I agree that SOM was a bit thin. . . but not by much. I would have liked 128 pages better for the same money. . . .

    But, if I have to choose low price or page count, I'll choose low price. I'd rather spend US$20 or less on a book that has fewer pages but still retains the same production values (hard covers, full color, glossy paper).

    From my perspective, SOM features a nice balance between price, page count, and production values.

    Decipher team, if you're reading this, please keep the price low!

  4. #19
    l loved the SOM it had a lot of good material from LUG Trek, that I really liked. As far as the ships go, only a few minor problems poped up, mostly with the over powered Miranda and Excelsior classes I don't think that the Miranda had 8 torpedo tubes per arc, its more like two. The Excelsior while most would agree is a capable and reliable ship, DIDN'T have TEN torpedo launchers per arc. Othe than thoughs minor mistakes I liked the ships write ups. I was wondering why the Sov had pulse cannons, maybe to make for the fact that there are no type twelve phasers listed or maybe pulse phasers are incorperated into the normal type X phasers giving extra penetration, as they were listed together.
    "Target all your firepower on the nearest Federation starship!" Yoda, Episode II

  5. #20
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    Question

    I sat down last night and very carefully reverse-engineered the Akira using the standard rules in the NG. The result is that the design comes up 3 spaces short. However, it also lists a 7 space hangar as carrying only 5 spaces of small craft and lists two systems as having less reliability (D instead of E).

    Is it possible that these modifications allow for the 3 spaces short?

    I'm VERY curious to see how the Starships book is going to fit 30-50 Peregrines into that little 7 space hangar.
    "The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank" -Montgomery Scott

  6. #21
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    Originally posted by Cmdr Powers

    I'm VERY curious to see how the Starships book is going to fit 30-50 Peregrines into that little 7 space hangar.
    The same way that the Voyager was able to fit all of those extra shuttles into its tiny little hangar.

    Now where did I put that pocket dimension?
    Davy Jones

    "Frightened? My dear, you are looking at a man who has laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom, and chuckled at catastrophe! I was petrified."
    -- The Wizard of Oz

  7. #22
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    Did someone say "Unbalacned Ships"?

    Ok, as for the overall Ops manual...it was ok. I think there should have been more stuff on "Enterprise" and perhaps something on "...and right after Voyager came home..."

    As for the ships...I also question the quality of medication being passed around. The Reliant/Miranda DOES NOT have 8 torpedo tubes...and the Excelsior DOES NOT have 10 torp tubes... Even an old country doctor would spin in his grave at these gross errors. I really hope that STARSHIPS is worth the $35 they want for it and I really hope they cleaned up the ship/base creation system.

    Do I need to mention the phaser thing again? Actually (if my rusty brain works) as I remember I heard they had re-vamped the whole phaser thing in STARSHIPS (I think Don Mappin got tired of hearing me bitch and moan).
    Darth Sarcastic

    "Shall I goto 'Red Alert' sir? It does mean changing the lightbulb." - Kryten, Red Dwarf

  8. #23
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    Eloquent as always.

  9. #24
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    I've had the chance to peruse the book for the better part of a week, now, and here's my assessment:

    1. Overall, I like the layout of the book. Even though it is rather thin, I definitely prefer the hardcover look.

    2. Chapter 1 was well written, and has some good general info on Starfleet and its procedures. My mind kept screaming at me that it needed a listing of General Orders, et al, but since that was covered in the PG, it wasn't necessary.

    My biggest problem with this section was the almost haphazard look of the uniforms graphics. For one, I completely disagree with Decipher's decision to not include the STTMP uniforms. Second, they completely skipped the 2320-2350 uniforms. Third, wtf is up with the mustard, TOS-style 2275-2351 duty uniform? If they were going to do this poor of a job with the uniforms, they should have left the section entirely out of the book.

    3. Chapter 2 looks great. The only thing missing, IMO, is even more armed and unarmed combat styles. The Brawling style is absolutely outstanding. Chapter 3 is exemplary, as well, especially the fleet/flagship advancement packages.

    4. The species chapter was also well-done. The Deltans were quite reasonable, and the Tellerites and Tiburonese were simply outstanding. As for the Regulans, it was well done and even left enough wiggle room for me to use the "Caitians" as a Preserver-seeded offshoot. I love it!

    5. Equipment write ups were fine. The tricorder spread was excellent.

    6. In the Starships section, I was pleased to see the expansion of the promotion edge to include flag ranks. Very nice explanation of the fleet captain and commodore ranks...it certainly fits the genre and on-screen evidence.

    Now, to the ships:

    I pulled out my own designs (where I had them...I've only dabbled with ideas on the Daedelus and didn't use the Ranger at all {since I prefer the FASA TOS stuff over the Icon}) and compared them to what was presented in the SOM. I haven't checked the SOM versions for point continuity. Also, some of the older ships (especially the Miranda and the Excelsior) should have had refit stats, as well...at least showing a difference between the pre-TNG and post-TNG versions.

    Miranda: I think they underpowered her sensors and life support...as a "fixture of long-range science, supply and exploratory missions," the Miranda should be on the upper end of those scales (at least Class 3 in each). I also gave them additional shuttlebays (just my philosophy on shuttle complements for research vessels). The warp numbers are way too low. I gave the Miranda a Type Va. Obviously, the torpedo numbers are way too high, and I felt the phasers should be of higher quality. As I stated above, I also included a TNG-era refit, using TNG-era systems. Also, I wonder how the ship has 5 more maneuvering points than my version did (same size ).

    Excelsior: 25 structure? Are they high? I gave her 40, to reflect the toughness of ships built in that era. Again, an exploratory cruiser should have greater sensor capabilities than Class 2. Type V warp? No. Type VI at the very least (post experiment). I gave her Type VI in 2284 and Type VII in 2293. I used Type VIII phasers, as well (though 1 less), and the Excelsior torp numbers are completely off. I also feel the Excelsior should have a higher command rating and a lower helm rating.

    Ambassador: The book classed the Ambassador as a size larger than I did, but with the same dimensions. Again, I gave the ship more shuttlebays (1 seems to be the standard of the day for the SOM ships). Again, I feel that sensors, life support and operations are underrated for a ship as versatile and prestigious as the Ambassador is supposed to be in the early 24th C. Propulsion numbers are a little different, but otherwise seem reasonable. The phaser and torp numbers are, again, way off. These almost look like fanboy numbers to me.

    Nebula: Finally, they get the ops, sensors and life support numbers right (although I gave the ship an Ops of 3). Propulsion numbers are reasonable. The weapons numbers are reasonable, as well. However, I used the modular 5-space mission pod idea for the ship, which allows for more versatility of the design. It would have been nice to see Decipher do something similar with the book version.

    Akira: Well, I developed the Akira with a large shuttle/"fighter" capacity in mind (49 space worth), so it's amost comparing apples to oranges with the book version. I didn't inlcude ablative armor and actually used reduced structure (instead of increasing structure), which accounts for 10 of the 12 point difference in the shuttle bays. I also made the ship seperable, with an additional impulse engine. Weapons numbers are reasonable (I used an additional phaser and two fewer torps), but I gave her lesser shielding (space considerations). I also considered the Akira more of a command vessel, than a maneuverable one. Overall, one of the more reasonable designs (if you weren't building a through-deck carrier ).

    Saber: For starters, I'm a size larger on the cruiser (5 to 4). The ship is fairly reasonable, with two other major differences from my version. First, I think the book version is too slow (I used Class 8 warp). Second, the book version has vulnerable propulsion, but I use hardened propulsion. Difference in philosophy. Otherwise, excellent writeup (however, I still think the ship should be a size larger).

    Sovereign: I disagree that the Sovereign should be size 9. I think she's more like an 8. Everything else (except torps, which seems to be a result of the size issue) is quite reasonable. Even with the difference in ship sizes, I just don't see the Sovereign having 5 Q-torp systems...too many.

    Steamrunner: Since I based my Steamrunner on Steve Long's Spacedock version, I used a through-deck carrier concept here, too. This is the most reasonable of all the designs in the book, although I see the Steamrunner as less of a command ship, and more of a maneuvering ship (+1C, +2H, instead of the other way around).

    For my part, I will probably only use the Steamrunner and Saber from the SOM, and will continue to use my versions of the other vessels until the Starships book comes out.

    I am quite happy with the Starfleet Ops Manual, even with my problems with the uniforms and starships sections.

    I'm starting to get that Pavlovian response again, in anticipation of the Starships book....
    Last edited by Sea Tyger; 03-26-2003 at 02:27 PM.
    Davy Jones

    "Frightened? My dear, you are looking at a man who has laughed in the face of death, sneered at doom, and chuckled at catastrophe! I was petrified."
    -- The Wizard of Oz

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