Character Creation Help: edges

[E W Dawson]

Ok. After studying all of Decipher's support documents I can't find what I am looking for. So I turn to the wisdom of these boards for an answer.

My first question is: how much do starting edges cost? For example, during the racial selectionportion of character creation you are allowed to make 6 picks from a skill list and edge list; can I use all 6 picks to buy 6 edges (if there are at least 6 edges in the list and my character will meet all the prerequisits for them)? Simillarly, during the order selection portion I get an edge? And on a related note, I can take up to 4 flaws for 4 extra edges ontop of what edges I bought with my picks?

My second question is: how much do specialties cost during the above pick process? I think I read that the first specialty is free but additional specialties cost 1 pick.

Thak's for any help you can give me,

Eric

P.S. Sorry if this topic has been brought up before. I just want to make sure I get things right (or close to it) when I get a chance to run this cool game.

[Ineti]

"My firts question is: how much do starting edges cost?"

When creating a new character, edges either cost one pick, or are free (when selecting an order package, you get to pick one edge from the list).

"For example, during the racial selectionportion of character creation you are allowed to make 6 picks from a skill list and edge list; can I use all 6 picks to buy 6 edges (if there are at least 6 edges in the list and my character will meet all the prerequisits for them)?"

I don't see anything in any of the errata or rules to prevent this. Your Narrator may have other ideas.

"Simillarly, during the order selection portion I get an edge? "

Right. More if you want to take flaws.

"And on a related note, I can take up to 4 flaws for 4 extra edges ontop of what edges I bought with my picks?"

Right. A starting character may only have a maximum of four flaws. That could equate to four edges.

"My second question is: how much do specialties cost during the above pick process? I think I read that the first specialty is free but additional specialties cost 1 pick."

During character creation, the first specialty for each skill is free. Subsequent specialties cost picks.

Hope that helps!

[E W Dawson]

Thank's for the help, Ineti. But if I may trouble you a little further.

I think I now understand how starting edges and flaws work, but starting skills still has me a bit confused. The free specialties only apply during the race selection phase of character creation but not during the order selection phase? Additionally, when using a background package to select starting racial skills, do I automatically select a specialty for each skill in the that package (if the skill has a specialty)? I ask this because many of the skills listed under the various racial packages don't have specialtie listed.

Thank's again for any help you can give me. Eventually I will post one of my sample starting characters to see if I am writing these guys up properly.

P.S. Please don't take me for a pesky rules lawyer. To tell the truth, I heavely focus on the "how to bend the rules" aspects of the game when I run my adventures. However, I still think it is important to know how the rules really work; after all, the designers did make it this way for a reason.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by E W Dawson
The free specialties only apply during the race selection phase of character creation but not during the order selection phase? Additionally, when using a background package to select starting racial skills, do I automatically select a specialty for each skill in the that package (if the skill has a specialty)? I ask this because many of the skills listed under the various racial packages don't have specialtie listed.

As I understand it, any time you get a skill during character generation, be it a racial skill or an order skill, when you get that skill, you may pick one specialty for free.

So, say you create a Hobbit. If you take six different skills with your racial picks, you can pick one specialty for each one.

Then, when you get your order skills, you can get one specialty for each one of those (or buy another one with the extra picks).

Some skills don't have specialties, so you simply don't pick one.

[CorpBoy]

Originally posted by Ineti
So, say you create a Hobbit. If you take six different skills with your racial picks, you can pick one specialty for each one.

Then, when you get your order skills, you can get one specialty for each one of those (or buy another one with the extra picks).

While correct, don't forget that if your Racial Skills and your Order skills overlap, then you don't get to pick two (free) specialities.

A better way to think of it might be that, at the end of character creation, all skills that can have a specialty should have had one selected, and only skills that you "purchased" one or more extra specialties should have two (or more) specialties.

[John Kim]

Originally posted by Ineti
"For example, during the racial selection portion of character creation you are allowed to make 6 picks from a skill list and edge list; can I use all 6 picks to buy 6 edges (if there are at least 6 edges in the list and my character will meet all the prerequisits for them)?"

I don't see anything in any of the errata or rules to prevent this. Your Narrator may have other ideas.

Just curious: do people here who are Narrators disapprove of this? In the campaign that I am playing in, I picked six edges at this step (plus more for my Order). Taking an edge always seemed more interesting and heroic than just +1 skill (i.e. having "Healing Hands" seems more interesting for a character than going from +1 to +2 in "Healing"). It also seemed appropriate for a young character who was supposed to have a lot of potential but little experience.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by John Kim
Just curious: do people here who are Narrators disapprove of this?

I do. I'd rather see one of my players put points into skills rather than load up on edges.

[John Kim]

Originally posted by Ineti
I do. I'd rather see one of my players put points into skills rather than load up on edges.

Could you explain why? I described in my post why I did it for my PC. I think she came out pretty well as an interesting character.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by John Kim
Could you explain why?

Sure, I'll give it a go. I'll use my chronicle's PCs to help illustrate. In all of my PC's cases, they are playing characters who have some history. Things that have happened to them, things they have done prior to the start of the chronicle. These previous life experiences are quantified by their attribute levels, their skill levels, and their traits.

Their skills tell me what they've done in the past and what they're capable of. Their traits either enhance their skills or enhance their role-playing. The traits are important, but the skills are key to what they can and cannot do. They all have potential, and some of them are already starting to fulfill it. As they continue to grow, they can acquire more skill levels and more traits.

Now, if someone wanted to play a no-order character or a 0-advancement character who was young, inexperienced, but had potential, I'd be willing to try out a character that has a lot of edges rather than a lot of skill ranks.

Of course, a lot of the edges have prereqs that would require the hero to take skill levels anyhow...but I could envision okaying a hero who had little more than, say, Ambidextrous, Bold, Charmed Life, Faithful, and Curious. I would expect that hero to be really well role-played though.

Don't know if that explains it very well. It's just that in my experience, skill levels are more important than traits. If I were making a LOTR character, I'd give him mostly skill levels, and a couple of traits for flavor. This may not work for some, but it works for me...

[John Kim]

Originally posted by Ineti
Don't know if that explains it very well. It's just that in my experience, skill levels are more important than traits. If I were making a LOTR character, I'd give him mostly skill levels, and a couple of traits for flavor. This may not work for some, but it works for me...

Maybe you read more than what I meant. I'm not saying that players should always take edges -- and I'm sure that your way of making a character is fine.. But isn't variety is the spice of life? I would think a chronicle can have some characters with a long history like the one's you describe -- and some less skilled but more talented heroes as well.

Maybe a concrete example would help:

My own PC is a young woman of 22 who has not had any serious adventures prior to the start of the campaign. She is a Beorning, descended from the family of Beorn's wife, who has been trained by her clan as a magician. In particular, her focus is trying to rekindle the ties with nature which have waned over time. I had conceived of her as someone who at first appears as a sweet young woman and perhaps even naive, but underneath she has rock-hard resolve and principles which sustain her through adversity.

In simpler terms, she is a gentle healer and friend to animals who will upon occaision turn into a massive bear to defend what she thinks is right. Overall, I think she is a pretty neat character. In rules terms, I thought it made sense for her to favor having edges rather than more skills: Fair, Healing Hands, Resolute, etc.

Is your concern that because she is less skilled that she won't be able to contribute effectively? My brief experience is her edges and magic easily make her a valuable part of the group. I suspect the same would be true of many other edge-heavy characters as well.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by John Kim
But isn't variety is the spice of life? I would think a chronicle can have some characters with a long history like the one's you describe -- and some less skilled but more talented heroes as well.

No arguments from me here. This makes sense.

Is your concern that because she is less skilled that she won't be able to contribute effectively? My brief experience is her edges and magic easily make her a valuable part of the group. I suspect the same would be true of many other edge-heavy characters as well.

Sounds like a good character. If I had this character in my chronicle, I'd encourage the player to play her as is. A great character concept will sway my thoughts every time.

In my experience, however, my players don't come up with ideas like this. They tend toward more experienced characters, and use skill levels to represent some of the character's experience and expertise.

Just different flavours, I suppose.

[John Kim]

Originally posted by Ineti Sounds like a good character. If I had this character in my chronicle, I'd encourage the player to play her as is. A great character concept will sway my thoughts every time.

In my experience, however, my players don't come up with ideas like this. They tend toward more experienced characters, and use skill levels to represent some of the character's experience and expertise.

Just different flavours, I suppose.

OK, glad we agree. I'm curious: how experienced do your players conceive of their starting characters (i.e. years of adventurous history, say)? I mention this because something that concerns me in my campaign is that we have an Sylvan Elf who is supposed to be several hundred years old. The player who made him (Liz) thought roughly: well, if I'm going to make an immortal character it would be more interesting if he was really old and seemed immortal. Now, his background is that he has for most of his life been essentially a drunkard and a wastrel -- and has never dedicated himself to study. Even so, it seems that in play he really ought to have more skills to really reflect being centuries old.

[Ineti]

Originally posted by John Kim
OK, glad we agree. I'm curious: how experienced do your players conceive of their starting characters (i.e. years of adventurous history, say)?

Depends on the game. The chronicle I'm running now, I asked everyone to make 0 advancement heroes, regardless of their background. Once this chronicle is done, I may do another one with a bit more flexibility with starting advancement totals.

Most of the heroes have some sort of background that would support them having 1 or several advancements, but in this case the players and I are content to suspend a little disbelief and say that a 0 advancement hero adequately reflects their previous experience. I could have given them all some starting advancements, but wanted to see characters develop from the start.

There's a Dwarf and an Elf in the game. Both are significantly older than the other heroes. What was the elf doing for the past several hundred years? It's a little hard to conceptualize a several hundred year old 0-advancement hero, but we manage.