travel times

[kong]

what is the errata for the travel matrix on p.253? from what i can see it is incorrect, for instance pelargir is a great deal nearer than the shire to minas tirith and yet its listed as being further!


thanks

[Ineti]

I posted that very question to the Decipher boards a few days ago.

The correct travel time between Minas Tirith and Pelargir is 43 leagues, not 432.

That's the only error I noticed on the travel matrix.

[kong]

another thing is the travel times listed for horse speed. if you are telling me that a horse travels at 3mph and a man at 2.5mph then you are mistaken. this would have to assume a horse travelling at human walking pace. i want the speed for a horse at a good pace, otherwise whats the point of travelling by horse!

[Glorfindel]

And let me butt my question in here: when can we expect more stuff on the list? Like, Thranduil's halls, or Druadan Forest, or Rohan?

[kong]

well the easy solution would be to put a scale on the maps within the book.

[AslanC]

Yeah how fast does a horse travel and what is it's daily allotment of travel?

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by AslanC
Yeah how fast does a horse travel and what is it's daily allotment of travel?

The chart on p252 would seem to answer the "how fast" part.

I guess it is up to the Narrator (and common sense) as to how many hours a day a horse can go - which would depend on the horse's Stamina, the terrain, and the pace - so many variables, in fact, that a chart for this info would be nearly impossible.

[AslanC]

Yeah but like Kong says they have listed the wrong speed.

Humans 2.5 Horses 3mph.

What is a horses medium speed (canter? Trot?)

Top speed (Gallop?)

How long can they maintain these speeds? Etc...

[kong]

Originally posted by Jason Durall
The chart on p252 would seem to answer the "how fast" part.

I guess it is up to the Narrator (and common sense) as to how many hours a day a horse can go - which would depend on the horse's Stamina, the terrain, and the pace - so many variables, in fact, that a chart for this info would be nearly impossible.

p.252 is wrong, horses are obviously much faster than humans (else people wouldnt ride them). anyway it shouldnt be up to a narrator to determine such thiungs - thats the whole point of rules. i dont want to waste my time reseraching the mechanics of horse travel, i want to look this stuff up on a chjart and find out so i can get on with the business of writing an adventure. thats tough enoguh as it is.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by kong
p.252 is wrong, horses are obviously much faster than humans (else people wouldnt ride them). anyway it shouldnt be up to a narrator to determine such thiungs - thats the whole point of rules. i dont want to waste my time reseraching the mechanics of horse travel, i want to look this stuff up on a chjart and find out so i can get on with the business of writing an adventure. thats tough enoguh as it is.

Whether or not the chart on p252 reflects reality or not wasn't my point. AslanC asked about a rules question - I pointed the relevant table out to him and said that the rest was likely too complex to put into a table.

Whether or not the chart is "wrong" is your own opinion, isn't it?

Also, I've ridden a lot of horses (my family owned them when I was young). Horses don't walk that much faster than people. Speed is only part of the reason people ride horses - it's much easier letting something else do the walking for you.

I have no problem getting a number like mph, modifying it by the modifiers provided (rate, type of horse, time of day, weather, etc.), and multiplying it by a number of hours in a day.

I do think it's an oversight that they don't provide info on how many hours a horse might be ridden under normal circumstances, but on the other hand, I have rarely seen this information in any other RPG. In fact, out of the hundred and fifty I own, I don't recall seeing it anywhere.

[kong]

>Whether or not the chart is "wrong" is your own opinion, isn't it?

not really since these are pretty objectivge facts.
tolkien designed middle earth so the distances are already established and since horse are real and do travel on average faster than humans (which is the point of the table) its not wrong to say. obviously if you want a horse to travel at walking pace then you can do that, you dont need a chart to tell you this you need the entry for horse travel to obviously tell you how fast a horse 'cruises' at, otherwise whats the point.

>Also, I've ridden a lot of horses (my family owned them when I was young). Horses don't walk that much faster than people. Speed is only part of the reason people ride horses - it's much easier letting something else do the walking for you.

the point is that the table should be telling you how fast horses travel beyond human w2alking pace, you dont need a chart to tell you that a horse can walk at the same speed thats obvious.

[Jason Durall]

Originally posted by kong
the point is that the table should be telling you how fast horses travel beyond human w2alking pace, you dont need a chart to tell you that a horse can walk at the same speed thats obvious.

According to the table on p252, horses do travel faster than humans.

When they're walking, however, it's not that much faster.

The table has the speed in mph for horses walking, then in the modifiers below, it has adjustments for type of horse (pony/average/Rohan/Mearas) and pace (walk/trot/run/gallop). The column next to it has modifiers which may or may not be applicable (time of day, weather).

Take the first number. Modify it as appropriate. You then have the miles a horse can travel per hour.

What else are you looking for? Or am I missing something?

And as I mentioned before, it would be nice to know officially how many hours a day a horse might travel under average conditions, but you know, it is also so variable (burden, terrain, weather, pace, etc.) that it might not be that easy or useful a figure.

If you would like to contribute something useful to this discussion, tell me exactly what is missing, or what you'd like the rules to provide.

Or you can decide that I'm just wrong and keep arguing with me.

Have fun.

[thiskitty]

Originally posted by AslanC
Yeah but like Kong says they have listed the wrong speed.

Humans 2.5 Horses 3mph.

What is a horses medium speed (canter? Trot?)

Top speed (Gallop?)

How long can they maintain these speeds? Etc...

I can break it down for you using real horse numbers, but in my particular brand of horse competition, we measure horse speed in meters per minute:

A good, forward paced trot or slow canter would be around 13mph. (350mpm)

A steady canter would be approx. 15mph. (420mpm)

A gallop would be around 20mph. (570mpm)

A racehorse gallop would be (and I'm guessing here, this isn't my specialty) 40mph.

And really, a horse's walk ISN'T that much faster than a human's. We consider a horse's walk to be 6km/hour, which translates to about 4mph.

How long can they maintain these speeds? Well, depends on the horse and the terrain. A horse can walks all day - that's what nature designed them to do. They can trot for hours, but it's rough on both horse and rider, canter is easier, but it'll wind the horse too. I'd say you could canter over easy terrain on a conditioned horse for a couple of hours, if you gave them breaks. That's pretty much a description of foxhunting.

Racehorses are bred and trained specifically to run VERY FAST, and even then they're not allowed to run full out for more than a few minutes at a time, and even then a good portion of them break down just a few years into it.

All of this is based on horse and rider - no gear. We don't carry packs or saddlebags as we compete!

[AslanC]

Hey Jason

I appreciate your looking the stuff up and posting the page numebrs for us.

But lighten up man. You are coming off very agressive and snotty (which I hope is simply a problem with the medium and not your intention).

We are all friends here. This is the one place that doesn't have flame wars and stuff like that.

I know most of us go onto discussion boards with our "shields up" as it were, but there is no need here.

Honest, we are good people

If I am off base, accept my apology in advance.

[Jason Durall]

Sorry, AslanC, if I seem unduly peeved.

It is just a bit vexing to post an answer, have someone ignore your answer and say they want an answer but don't actually know the question, then ignore you when you post a step-by-step explanation of the answer.