"Starships" Questions

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Publius
Short Question: I was wondering about the differences in the Scout classification Don. In the Narrator's guide, they basically got a drastically reduced cost on sensors (in some cases a -1 in others a -2 because of the different scale), yet in Starships, they get a flat -1. Was that intentional?

What wasn't intentional is the extra reduced cost in the NG on pg 139 for Scouts -- all scout vessels (as per "Starships") receive a -1 cost to sensor systems. Period. Until you pointed it out I never noticed the super deal that scouts have been getting in the NG. The table in "Starships" is correct, although, until any errata comes out to change the NG sensor costs, you are technically allowed to use that chart instead.

The reason that I ask is that if the Nova is added up (other than the fact that it should have Transporters 2/2) with the Class 4 Sensor package from the Narrator's guide (cost of 2) rather than the Starships cost of 3 (4-1 for being a Scout) we would get a total of 65 spaces, without requiring that "Prototype (-3 Beam)" for balancing out the numbers.

This is correct and an error on my part. Pulling out my spreadsheet for the Nova that I originally created her with I neglected to discount her sensor package, instead paying the full cost. This eliminates the Prototype (-3 beam) Trait from that ship. [Actually, it doesn't -- see below.]

[Edit] Woops. Spoke too soon. Looks like I'm still 1 over so the Prototype Trait stays. Move along, nothing to see here. Nova is fine as written.

[Snake_Plissken]

Don,

I did a quick search for # of transporters/prototype bonii/propulsion systems reliability ratings discrepancies

in the Transporter dept:

Akira
Excelsior
Nova
Sovereign
Vor'Cha
Groumall
Galor
Borg Scout
Borg Time Sphere
D'Kora
Jem'Hadar Warship
Harmony

not sure about the Defiant and the S8742 bioship

for the prototpe-missile:

Constitution refit
Galaxy upgrade
Nebula

for the propulsion systems reliability rating discrepancies:

B'Rel
K'Vort
K'tinga
Negh'Var
Raptor
Vor'Cha
Theta
Groumall
Galor
Keldon
D'kora
Ferengi pod
JH Attack Ship
JH Warship
Orion Harmony

not sure about the Borg Time Shpere, Borg Scout and S8742 bioship

also, I'm wandering if the JH Attack Ship having a -2 helm modifier is some sort of mistake; I'm also wondering if the Ambassador's -2 tactical penalty is intended- I'm inclined to think so since it would compensate for its armament's monster penetration values.

[Cmdr Powers]

Just curious. Why do Starfleet shuttlecraft carry Type V phasers when the table says that they are too large for a Size 2 ship?

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Cmdr Powers
Just curious. Why do Starfleet shuttlecraft carry Type V phasers when the table says that they are too large for a Size 2 ship?

Look closely. The Delta Flyer and the Type 10 shuttlecraft both have the Type V phaser. The Delta Flyer is a Size 3 so its allowed; the Type 10 shuttlecraft has the Unique System (Beam) Trait so its allowed as well.

If you're referring to a different shuttlecraft/phaser array please be more specific. Thanks.

[Don Mappin]

FYI, I'll be travelling on business the next 2 days and won't be checking this thread (won't be hauling my crappy B&W printout of the book with me). Plus I have some more Stargate work to take care of. I will try to get back and answer any questions as quickly as possible, however.

[Cmdr Powers]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
Look closely. The Delta Flyer and the Type 10 shuttlecraft both have the Type V phaser. The Delta Flyer is a Size 3 so its allowed; the Type 10 shuttlecraft has the Unique System (Beam) Trait so its allowed as well.

If you're referring to a different shuttlecraft/phaser array please be more specific. Thanks.

Ah, gotcha. Unique System (Beam). Appreciate the pointer, Don.

Maybe I can do Unique System (Shuttlecraft Bay) and add another bay on the Akira...

I guess you must be getting tired of us "Akira is a carrier" types. Maybe Unique System trait can bring that huge 'thru-deck' concept to the Akira-class and match it up with its description in Starship Spotter and the SOM.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Cmdr Powers
Maybe I can do Unique System (Shuttlecraft Bay) and add another bay on the Akira...

Not by the rules, technically.

I guess you must be getting tired of us "Akira is a carrier" types. Maybe Unique System trait can bring that huge 'thru-deck' concept to the Akira-class and match it up with its description in Starship Spotter and the SOM.

Have you read "Spotter" or "Starships?" The ships in "Starships" are built around that book. To quote:

"In its role as a support ship, Akira-class has three quick pressure shuttle bays. A forward bay located at the bow of the starship utilizes a three-tiered force field designed to allow for rapid deployment of shuttles or fighters. Two aft bays, mounted below and between the catamarans at the aft of the primary hull, are designed to facilitate a protected recovery of small craft."

From "Starships" page 36:
"Shuttlebay: 1 f, 2 a
"Shuttlecraft: 21 Size worth"

Also:
"While the Akira already represents new thinking in Starfleet's starship design, with the inclusion of her torpedo launchers, the Akira also incorporates three quick-pressure shuttlebays. The single forward bay, located on the primary hull, serves as the primary launching facility, while two bays, located aft of the primary hull, are used for shuttle recovery. Shuttlecraft range from the standard Starfleet multi-role craft to specialized fighters, used for picket defense or patrol duty. Squadrons of such craft allow the class to fulfill a unique support role and project a Starfleet presence farther than most other starships."

You're trying to turn the Akira-class into something it already is...

[Cmdr Powers]

Oh, I definitely read all of that, Don. But Starship Spotter and SOM both indicate that an Akira might carry from 30-50 fast attack fighters.

Unique system trait would only enhance the capacity by 1 bay (4 bays for a size 8 ship). This would increase the capacity to 28 size worth of shuttlecraft- which is certainly better than 21, but nowhere near '30-50'.

Believe it or not, I'm not as wedded to this concept as you might infer. I'm actually having a good time trying to rewrite my game for your Akira design!

[Cmdr Powers]

Page 41 of Starship Spotter:
Embarked Craft (Typical):
10 Work Bee General Utility Craft
40 Fighters (various classes)
10 Shuttlecraft (various classes)
5 Shuttlepods (various classes)

That comes to about 115 size worth of small craft- but whose counting?

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Cmdr Powers
Believe it or not, I'm not as wedded to this concept as you might infer. I'm actually having a good time trying to rewrite my game for your Akira design!

LOL! Dude, build your own! That's what's so great about RPGs!

Yes, I saw that bit in "Spotter" but the number of shuttlecraft are also part of the abstraction of the system. The "21 Size worth" are how many the vessel can effectively support or deploy at any given time. Counting the exact number of shuttlecraft/fighters on a vessel isn't really that important, as VOY has shown us. Much like counting the number of torpedoes you're carrying.

So, honestly, you going to run a battle with an Akira, a couple of Dominion ships and 21 fighters?

[Cmdr Powers]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
LOL! Dude, build your own! That's what's so great about RPGs!

Counting the exact number of shuttlecraft/fighters on a vessel isn't really that important, as VOY has shown us. Much like counting the number of torpedoes you're carrying.

So, honestly, you going to run a battle with an Akira, a couple of Dominion ships and 21 fighters?

Now, that's what I wanted to hear! I'll be happy to play with you anytime! You reminded me that the system is to create the spirit of the design- not the nuts and bolts.

Thanks again, Don!

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Cmdr Powers
Now, that's what I wanted to hear! I'll be happy to play with you anytime! You reminded me that the system is to create the spirit of the design- not the nuts and bolts.

Thanks again, Don!

[High-fives Cmdr Powers] Keep the faith, buddy!

For everyone else I refer them to the sidebar on page 6 of "Starships."

[Sea Tyger]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
Aside from the dialog in "Balance of Terror" I think it's pretty silly to say the Romulans have no warp technology, especially since ENT has shown the Romulans galavanting about the galaxy nearly 100 prior. But, that's just me.

I agree with you...I just don't see how the Romulans were able to have an empire without significant warp technology (and fight an extended war with Earth 100 years earlier ).

One thought I had to simulate Romulan "magnetic bottle" warp drives was to attach a no cost flaw that forces Romulan ships prior to 2268 to "refuel" after every use of the drive (requiring some indeterminate amount of time, yada yada yada). Following the 2268 treaty, all Romulan ships are reverse engineered to correct this problem.

Unfortunately my shitty copy is unreadable so I'll have to take your word on this! Perhaps the weapons section was reversed or something? I'll take a look at this ship as soon as someone sends me a readable copy of the book.

I was mainly making an observation on this one...based on what I thought would be logical for an upgrade. Of course, it may have been a typo (maybe copied over from the B'rel/K'vort page, which does have use the K-GDM-2). Otherwise, I'm absolutely pleased with everything I've seen in the book....and I have about 50-75 ships to rework.

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
I agree with you...I just don't see how the Romulans were able to have an empire without significant warp technology (and fight an extended war with Earth 100 years earlier ).

Ideally, now that we've covered the bulk of the UFP ships, I'd like to see another volume of Starships with more of an alien slant -- more gear, Traits, and especially maneuvers, aimed at factions like the Romulans.

One thought I had to simulate Romulan "magnetic bottle" warp drives was to attach a no cost flaw that forces Romulan ships prior to 2268 to "refuel" after every use of the drive (requiring some indeterminate amount of time, yada yada yada). Following the 2268 treaty, all Romulan ships are reverse engineered to correct this problem.

Nice idea.

[Snake_Plissken]

hate to sound like the official nitpicker here ... plz don't throw bricks at me (!)

but last night as I was working on another design I realised that some ships showed weapon reliability discrepancies in the same fashion as propulsion reliability glitches.

here's the list:

K'Vort
K'tinga
Negh'Var
Vor'Cha
D'deridex
Theta
Borg Scout

Also last night I realized something: I had one impulse engine rated at D and a warp system rated at CC. Now I would have to pick the lowest of the two but then it occured to me that CC is actually a better rating than D. The way I see it is that with D a system can sustain 3 hits, each hit with a penalty that cumulates, and a last hit that renders the system inoperational. With CC you can also sustain 3 hits (plus a fourth coup de grace) but 2 of those hits actually carry a penalty while the very first hit is a freeby. Hence a CC-rated system being better than a D-rated one. So for my ship I picked what I perceived to be the "lowest" rating and thus made both "Ds".

I made a list showing the ratings from the most brittle to the most solid ones:

A
B
AA
C
BB
D
CC
E
DD
F
EE
FF


-snake runs around dodging the bricks thrown at him-