How often do your player´s characters die?

[qerlin]

Forgot...the players usually take it pretty well. I don't do it often & we all know this is jsut for fun; the players that get too wokred up over a character dying don't last long.

Worst was a guy, loooong time ago, in a Victorian adventure game -- out of ammo, armed with just is sword, the rest of the troops around him withdrawing from a Sudanese attack -- lunges at the approaching enemy force and gets what you'd expect: a fast death.

Later he tells me his character came to him in a dream, upset that we had killed him off so unceremoniously and that he didn't like the way the other PLAYERS were so cavalier about it.

I chucked him out of the game shortly afterward; bit creepy, yeah...

[tmutant]

I don't like to kill characters. Torturing them is so much more fun. Although...

In a Cyberpunk campaign, Character lowcrawls across a hallway, twenty feet from goon with auto-shotgun. Five rounds on target. I ask player "What kind of armor are you wearing?"
His reply: "Armor?"

I handed him a blank character sheet and some dice. Stupidity should be punished. Heroism should be rewarded. Let Heroes die reaallly messy.

[Ramage]

I always allow for the possibility of death in my campaigns. That said, I don't have a high body count (except for one REALLY stupid group and those various Paranoia campaigns, but let's not go there...).

Usually there are a couple deaths per campaign that runs more than 6 months. We don't have them every session -- that would be gratuitous -- but they happen enough to keep people on their toes.

I have also seen characters on no less than four occaissions sacrifice themselves. This always makes for one of those unforgettable Roleplaying Moments. "Wow, I remember when Geleg broke the Heart of Hatred -- that was intense!"

(hmmm, but the life of a gamemaster is ALWAYS intense...)

When a character dies the player may take on the role of one of the ill-defined npcs that we have around (fleshing the character out in the process) or make a new character of slightly less stature (not greatly so, but, in CODA terms, say 500xp short of the current mark, more or less). A brand new character can be fun because there are no preconceptions, but suddenly you have to integrate into the group; and established npc already has some backstory that you may or may not like, but you have to live with it.

The possibility of deaths in the games makes the game all the sweeter. Too many deaths leads to No Fun At All.

[woo hoo! a promotion! I is a real ofisser now!]

[KillerWhale]

I'm not letting characters die often; instead, I prefer to make them live with the consequences of their failures, be they physical or emotional. Sometimes they even wish they were really dead... But that makes for excellent roleplaying.

Most often, two causes can lead a character to death in my games:
- Heroic self-sacrifice
- Plain stupidity

[LUGTrekGM]

Many, many groups in Twilight:2000 were wiped out to a man, usually because they'd be holed up in some ruin, doing Recon, and a tank platoon would roll past, and they'd go for an unprepared counter-armor ambush, or a few companies would move into town, and they's engage, and the M-60 would jam, or other adverse luck. People still kept generating new PCs though.

A game of the old Palladium Revised Recon, resulted in one guy from a team of 6 men making it back to the Helo alive, but they rescued all of the POWs they came to get. Many said it was the best game they ever played, mostly because we had a detailed map, a good plan, and bad luck, but lots of heroism.

I am a firm believer in the dramatic necessity of the chance of serious loss, or death, for PCs, otherwise, play TOON.

As long as there is a chance of death, it's exciting and dramatic. Might be 1 in 20, might be 50%. I always give a bad decision, a chance, and say, "If you do that, there is a "Quote the potential roll" chance your PC will die, if you do that. Sometimes they roll, sometimes they back off.

Anyone leaping on a grenade knows, it's going to be 95% chance of death anyway, but we roll it out, all the same.

Players are not allowed to kill others' characters in my games, unless it is an agreed upon mercy killing, or one of the offenders has or is "Turning to the dark side, or similar."

A LUG Trek CO's Player once tried to ram a critically damaged Reliant Class ship into 3 critically damaged enemy Klingon D-7's.

The crew begged him, then begged me to not allow him to blow up the ship and the crew with it, just to "win the battle."

The CO was thus relieved by the NPC doctor, and the XO jumped in the seat, and got them the hell out of there. The CO threw a fit, and was ejected from the group.

I once ran a Cyberpunk scenario where the whole group boarded a tanker full of toxic waste. they stood around while it was blown up, milling around. They took a real time half hour, to steal anything not nailed down, while the ship burned.

All died of variations on chemical burns, and/or fire, except those that jumped into the water. The rest were gunned down by the police helo after they fired on it, as it tried to rescue them.

In a long running Battletech game of 4 years we had one death as the last mission of the campaign, where the PCs were attacking a vacuum world fortress in specially sealed 'mechs. They were told the hazards of penetration of engine (dead 'mech) or cockpit (dead pilot).

They all agreed it was very deadly, and chancy, but well, it was all or nothing. One guy flanked by himself behind some hills, jumping to both distract some enemy away from the main force, and also to throw off the enemy gunners.

He got hit by spectacularly accurate return fire from 3 enemy 'mechs, which delivered a critical hit to the engine, a nearly full ammunition bay, and cockpit, all at the same time. I reluctantly ruled his PC dead, since it was by three different methods, and he was pretty upset about it.

The rest of the force completed the mission in all respects and posthumously awarded him the equivalent of the Silver Star for heroism. Of all the PC deaths, I as GM took this one the hardest, but I let it stand. It also made me seriously consider my role as impartial arbiter, and the whole fudge / no fudge question, for some time.

The PC did not deserve to die, he wasn't stupid, but his tactic was what killed him. It also broke up the enemy's formation, thus he sacrificed himself, but he was not aware of it, as he was doing it. I still wonder about this one, and think about it, when I make a ruling on PC death, to this day.


I myself have played so many games, and characters, I don't care if they live or die, as long as it fits the story, has some sense of timing or dramatic need, and is not just stupid BS. I figure bad luck happens, so does good luck. I minimize my exposure to the former, by tactics, and play cautiously, usually.


I once played in a D&D Game with a relatively new GM where the Scenario was "Go through the jungle, to the Lost City."

We got our gear, set up, and started playing. 3 minutes into the game, walking through the jungle we were told, "Two tigers leap out from the Trees, with surprise!" We tried to fight, but the tigers killed 4 of our 6 party, before they went down.

I called for a private talk with the GM, as to how it might be better to space out the encounters, saving the most intense for the climax. He replied "This is nothing, these tigers are punks, compared to what is in store."

So, pointing out he's got 2 pcs left, and 4 hours of gaming, I suggested he restart the session.

Instead, we sat down, and he ruled "4 scrolls of resurrection appear in thin air, along with 12 potions of extra-healing. That leaves 2 each (pointedly looking at me for emphasis), just in case you losers decide not to get it together to improve your tactics, and walk right into an ambush again, like total idiots."

I got up and walked out right there. The rest of the group followed me. We gave him 2 weeks to figure it out, and he was a much better GM for having had some down time to contemplate his personality flaws.

I believe in the three-act to nine-act format. I believe that at the climax of the scenario, there should be either a major revelation, transformation, exile, victory by a hair, loss, or death or chance of it, unless the whole setup is a character depth or exploration scenario.

I don't believe I am a killer GM. But I am not against killing off Minor to major NPCs, if my story needs it. PCs, it depends on the story, and what actions they take.

I don't usually stack the deck against them, fleeing or calling for reinforcements / delaying is usually an option, unless it is a horror scenario, despite the overall genre.

If a PC states to me "Fine, I kill myself, by [method]," I allow it, as long as it does not materially affect the other characters. Emotionally, it's up to the other players. Some players have pushed the limits, time and again, thinking they hve script immunity, to find that they don't.

I once killed off a girlfriend's Security Officer PC, when she led a boarding team by Transporter to a nearly undamaged Klingon ship, that had taken a critical hit to a shield Generator (Thus allowing the beam-over). She lasted a few combat rounds, and was soon shredded by disruptor fire, from multiple attackers in the confused melee that ensued.

The rest of the boarding team immediately withdrew, saying ooc stuff like "Wow, Dude, he did that to his girlfriend's PC, we haven't got a chance! Get back to the ship!"

I thought that slighty humorous, as I was just being impartial, as always.

2 Spy PCs in a Top Secret once climbed an escape ladder of a building while the bad guys had rigged it to blow. By a series of luck (the demo roll for the bad guys was a critical failure) and dex rolls, they made it, riding it to the ground, scathed, with a broken ankle on one PC and a broken arm on the other. They immediately declared that they should be dead, instead, thinking I was "fudging" for them. But I just kept pressing on.

Once in an espionage scenario, the PC group took an NPC Terrorist captive for a helo ride, telling him, if he didn't talk, he'd be tossed out of the helo. He refused, having already been generated as Ultra hard-core, dedicated martyr for the cause. They rolled to toss him out, he rolled to grab a PC. A battle for strength ensued and all three PCs rolled critical failures while the bad guy rolled a critical success, I rolled the dice, and ruled PC # 2 falling out of the helo, following the Terrorist.

When asked for his next action, he said "Stabbing the %#^@#$^&$& for killing me," rather than "Grabbing on to the helo as I fall" or something else. The rest of the group was laughing so hard, we just stopped the game right there. I asked the Player if he was unhappy.

He said "No, Serves the character right for trying to use this method for interrogation, when a battery to the nads works just as well. My next guy won't mess up like this."

An interesting group to play with, who usually played Paladins and Rangers in D&D.


Too many other stories to tell, I've been rolling GM dice for over 28 years, starting with Traveller, in 1977.

It's interesting to see how many stories I read in the above posts feel so much like my own.

Bravo to all of you out there who have kept gaming alive, reading thick rules books, mapping into the night, dragging ideas from your imaginations, providing entertainment for little reward.

I would not do it differently, if given another chance at a new life.

[Nene_Richards]

hello
i´m new at the board, so i´ve got some questions to you other narrators or players outside there. our group now plays st:rpg since february of this year. we have no narrator who always narrates our adventures, the job of the narrator always changes in our group.
i´ve narrated 4 adventures till now. i think....umm....we´ve played up to 12 adventures yet, the characters encountered the borg, and LOTS of romulans. but although there have been many critical scenes till now, none of our(five at all)characters died. it is not in my opinion to say that i want to see the characters dying but i believe that a player gets angry if "mad" narrator lets his char die. so, as a narrator in our group(where no one has died before)you have the problem that you don´t know waht to do if one of the chars get into a fight with mighty ememys. how is this in your groups? do you have any experiences with the players reactions about dying characters?
cu
Ishan

Ps: Excuse my english, i know, it is not the best.

Bad reactions? Oh yeah, there are players that think their character is God then when that character dies they get ticked off. Others do not.

One of the things I do when a character dies is end that game that night. There on the spot. I find it helps with the situation and feelings of the players. I have killed 10 PCs in my lifetime as a GM in 16 of GMing.

10 and three was from the same guy. Each time he lost his character for doing something really stupid, not going into the details of what he did but if you are surrounded by a bunch of people with rifles and the say surrender and you say never then fire your gun, who wins?

I was playing in a game where a character died, the player refused to follow orders in a Heavy Gear Militia game from another PC and this resulted in him being in ground zero of an explosion. Now we played this game 3 years and his character screwed up and died. GM that was running the game ended the game that night. Player was upset and fidgity, the GM told him his character was gone. Later, when the GM was at a friend's gaming store, he had a tempertantrum, guy was 26 at the time, banging his hand in the wall etc. The GM relented and let the character survive. After that point no one really respected the GM because he never stuck to his guns.

I have lost 2-3 characters, I have played in my 16 years of gaming. I know I am disappointed when the character dies, it does feel like a part of you is gone after all you did invest X amount of time and mental energy to make this character. I never get upset, I get sad, then after 15 minutes start looking and thinking of another character if I can that night.

The problem is some people do not understand it is a game. GAME and like the guy that lost his character of 3 years in his own mistake to boot, he could not accept the consiquences. This is an example of someone skewing character and reality. Let's say, I never have played with the guy since and I never will.

Players should feel alittle lost with the loss of a character, but it should be a learing experience and go the hell on. Players that don't need to be out of the gaming and never allowed in a game again. Yes, it is harsh, but those people generally are the troublemakers anyways like the guy, who played that character for 3 years. When his character died the gaming group felt a giant monkey left the group, bringing him back destroyed the game.

Don't relent, hold to your guns.

[Pericles]

Jeez in 31 years of GMing I don't even want to think about the numbers of PCs that have died while I was on the business side of the GM's screen. Dozens at the very least, but I don't think it's topped a hundred, but it does include at least one TPK (total party kill) of seven characters at once. I've never tried counting. One reason for the high body count, including the aformentioned TPK, is I GM Call of Cthulhu quite a bit and toe tags are part and parcel of being an Investigator.

I have never on the other hand ever set out to kill a PC either. The most common cause of PC death is stupidity and like Nene, I never relent once a PC dies. Of all those lamented PCs over the years, exactly ZERO have been resurrected (outside of D&D, which allows that sort of thing) and the stupidier the cause of death, the more final the death.

I do fudge for the PC's sake when dice go bad, I do not like for a PC to die, especially when they are in character and playing well just because a couple lumps of plastic choose to roll poorly. I do make consiquences for the bail out harsh to let the player know they got a "Get out of dead free" card. Crippling injuries, loss of equipment, status, or other cherished items are a clear reminder that there are actions and reactions to their choices.

[The Tatterdemalion King]

[LUGTrekGM]

If the group gets into a fight with a larger force, and they choose to fight, roll the dice, and make the ruling. That's the Narrator's Job.

Some players will never be able to referee, because there is a Decision-making process, and a certain "Stick by your guns in the face of flak from players vs. a fair call" that some people just do not have.

I've always believed "It's the referee's game. If you don't like it, vote with your feet. If you do, play the best way you can, and be open to the storyline, and dramatic changes of fortune."

[Nene_Richards]

Jeez in 31 years of GMing I don't even want to think about the numbers of PCs that have died while I was on the business side of the GM's screen. Dozens at the very least, but I don't think it's topped a hundred, but it does include at least one TPK (total party kill) of seven characters at once. I've never tried counting. One reason for the high body count, including the aformentioned TPK, is I GM Call of Cthulhu quite a bit and toe tags are part and parcel of being an Investigator.

I have never on the other hand ever set out to kill a PC either. The most common cause of PC death is stupidity and like Nene, I never relent once a PC dies. Of all those lamented PCs over the years, exactly ZERO have been resurrected (outside of D&D, which allows that sort of thing) and the stupidier the cause of death, the more final the death.

I do fudge for the PC's sake when dice go bad, I do not like for a PC to die, especially when they are in character and playing well just because a couple lumps of plastic choose to roll poorly. I do make consiquences for the bail out harsh to let the player know they got a "Get out of dead free" card. Crippling injuries, loss of equipment, status, or other cherished items are a clear reminder that there are actions and reactions to their choices.

You ran D&D, my intro to gaming was TMNT and Vampire 1st Edition. I can proudly say in 16 years running games I have never ran a D&D game. D&D high death rate styled game.

[Pericles]

You ran D&D, my intro to gaming was TMNT and Vampire 1st Edition. I can proudly say in 16 years running games I have never ran a D&D game. D&D high death rate styled game.

I didn't have a choice in 1975 the only game in existance was D&D. I can say I haven't GMed D&D since 1988, so I still have you beat in years NOT a D&D GM.

[BouncyCaitian]

Being a veteran GM, I tend to cut my players some slack when it's warrented. But there will occasionally be a bolt from below if they start getting sloppy.

Or annoy me. I'm not petty. I just have very little mercy if the player is being an ass and getting on peoples nerves.

Obey the Gamemaster. The Gamemaster is your friend. If you do not beleive this, the Gamemaster will use you as reactor sheilding

[Nene_Richards]

I didn't have a choice in 1975 the only game in existance was D&D. I can say I haven't GMed D&D since 1988, so I still have you beat in years NOT a D&D GM.

Regardless, you ran it before and I have not so

[Sea Tyger]

I have to admit I'm surprised I hadn't already responded to this thread; I thought I had, but it may have been a similar thread in previous years.

Anyway, I will preface my statements by stating that I have been playing since 1980 and GMing since 1981. Even with all that experience, I feel that I only became a true storyteller in the last 5 years.

My GMing experience dates back to AD&D (1979 version), the original Top Secret and FASA Star Trek. I have run games in just about every system (with minor exceptions, notably FGU, L5R/7th Sea, and Unisystem).

I don't intentionally try to kill characters unless the plot absolutely calls for it, and, even then, I give the PCs a fighting chance. However, I do challenge the PCs, requiring them to be creative (rather than just do full-frontal assaults against the bad guys) to overcome encounters. This has resulted in the occasional player death. In my current weekly D&D campaign (a Renaissance-era campaign that has run for 16 months), I've had three PC deaths. In two instances, the deaths were the direct result of the plot (successful assassination attempts). Bad luck for the PC accompanied the first attempt, and he was dead before the rest of the party could reach him. The second attempt wouldn't resulted in the PC's death, except that he forgot about an ability that would've saved him and allowed him to finish off the second attacker.

The third death was the result of the capstone encounter of an adventure; the PCs squared off against a dragon who was forced to guard the crown jewels of the last king. The dwarven warmaster (fighter PC) had monologued about his prowess and was standing in directly in front of the dragon, just after it had injured part of the party with it's breath weapon.

Well, since he was the only PC in reach, the dragon unleashed all of it's melee fury on the dwarf, doing some 80hp of damage and instantly killing the character (he was at half HPs at that point).

In the previous D&D campaign, we had one character cause either her own or another character's death six times throughout the four years I ran that. She, personally, cost the party over 100,000gp in resurrection costs. The player was a maverick and "unorthodox" (okay, she was disruptive), and most of the deaths were the direct results of her brash actions. I've had a couple PCs die aside from that, and those were more the result of bad luck than anything else.

Some games, though, require death to be a frightening reality. I'm currently running a WWII campaign for some players on the online roleplaying community boards. This is a strictly-historical campaign; no magic, no sfx, just heroic squad-level combat and adventures. So far, no one has died (only on the third encounter of the first scenario), but a number of PCs are wounded and, even with a medic in the group, I could conceivably lose a couple before their regiment takes the airfield.

So, for me, it depends heavily on the needs of the campaign; otherwise, I don't like to kill off characters indiscriminately, since that is bad for the story.

[Pericles]

Regardless, you ran it before and I have not so

<Replying using best grumpy old guy voice>

Dang whippersnapper, flauntin' all them high falutin' store brought choices and all. Back when I started, we walked fifteen miles uphill both ways to play with rocks! I'll shows ya to respect yer elders ya young whelp! <shakes fist impotently> THAT'LL learn ya!