Eugenics War

[Ensign Arrgh]

I haven't seen space seed, but something came to bug me about the datation of this event. The dates I usually see for the DY100 is 1996, but most of the vague references given by Khan and others revolve around a figure of 2 centuries (technically 3 in Dr Bashir I presume, but the writer made a slight mistake by keeping the reference as is), and they are, according to the Chronology, in 2267 for Space Seed and in 2285 for ST:TWOK. This makes it 271 years for the first, and 289 for the second, one of the two references must be off the mark, or the war lasted an exceptionally long time and even got carried around the World War three period. However, we are shown the functionning of a court in the post war era in some area where they went down to a pseudo-feudal barbaric dictatorship, era which would be around the 2 centuries mark. Given that since Khan surely had enough time to understand the workings of standard Starfleet Naval technology to command a starship relatively aptly, he must have been more or less aware of the date, if not of the current year, at least of his recovery.

Given this, my personal view on this would be that the Eugenics conflict would have happened either a few years before or a few years after the Third World War, maybe even at the time of Cochrane's research, which would explain the paranoia around the base, probably drawing various nations in the conflict, and the after the war situation would be even more credible IMHO because the lack of many central governments would have created smaller states, and brought along a tremendous Balkanisation of the major nation-states of the world, which would have been far easier to take over, and with many of those small states, they could really have had the situation degenerate in a serious conflict because of the small states around, possibly weakened by the after effects of WW3, civil war or minor border conflicts, as there seems to have been after all global conflicts.

YMMV, this is my view of this. Opinions, Flames, Rants?

[Kirok]

In Space Seed, a still groggy Kahn asks Kirk "How long...?", Kirk says "...have you been asleep?", Kahn nods, and Kirk says "About 200 years..."

That figure seem to have been ignored over time, and conflicts with most if not all canon dates established afterwards. It seems Roddenberry changed his mind at some ppoint after SS as to how far in the future TOS was taking place.

There are two Eugenics Wars novels out that, if you can tolerate the writing style, are apparently rife with explanations as to how the Eugenics Wars actually DID happen in the 1990s...

Star Trek: The Eugenics Wars--The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh, Volume 1 and Volume 2, by Greg Cox

here's some details: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...663496-1396707

although, of course, buy it at your local mom&pop book store.

[Evan van Eyk]

As far as I know, ST first was set around 2200, which would make Kirk's words right. In the novel dealing with the first flight of Enterprise ( 'Final Frontier' ) the year is somewhat 2190.

[Sea Tyger]

There are a lot of inconsistencies in the first season, as Roddenberry & Co. were still settling on things like the name for Starfleet (UESPA, Space Service, etc.), Spock's race name (remember the name Vulcanian in "The Paradise Syndrome"?) and the actual year in which the show took place.

However, I believe they listed 1996 as a definite date for Khan (I can't remember at the moment if that was when he left, or when the war began). Also remember that Kirk didn't know who Khan was when he mentioned 200 years...so, if the DY100 was in service in the 2060s and later (and it's quite possible that DY100s were being used by the recovering Earth after first contact in 2063), then it may have been a legitimate estimate...and one that Khan (who clearly wished to hide his identity at the beginning) wasn't going to dissuade (especially until he was fully aware of his situation).

The Star Trek Chronology, I know, lists the Eugenics Wars as in the last few years of the 20th Century. Who cares if it didn't happen in RL?

[Trinity Zeldis]

Times in the TOS were left vague for a reason. The time was set by Roddenberry as, "Sometime between 1999 and 2999." Later in the series, various reference points are given for the dates. When Kirk was captured by the US Army, the CO told Kirk, "I'm going to lock you up for three hundred years." Kirk's response to this is, "That ought to be just about right."

Also, given that history at the time of Kahn et al, history was more an art than a science. Records were lost, destroyed, or forgotten. This is also mentioned in Space Seed.

Meanwhile, in that very same episode, Spock, or was it that historian lady, stated that Kahn's people started World War III.

Simply put, guesstimates are bound to be the only resolution to data conflicts such as these.

See also the threads concerning Travel Times and Star Charts.