Psionics and the Borg...

[Dan Gurden]

So while writing the Psionics sourcebook, I was covering Psionics amongst the Galactic powers. And among them was a short consideration of the Borg.

Now the Borg stance on Psionics seems to be clear, a tecnologicalvariantion of mass telepathy with the Hive Mind, and the lack of individualism amongst the drones seems to imply that Psionics are right out of the equation.

But as the book is written from a very 'Starfleet POV', I began covering the application of Psionics against the Borg. This I felt might prove a fuitful discussion here, and at least bear relevance to the 'Star Trek' nature of these boards.

And so;

"How do Psionics work against the Borg and the Collective? Can the Borg eventually learn to adapt against different forms of Psionic abilities? Could the Borg eventually adapt to use Psionics? Discuss."

[Mijoro]

Originally posted by Dan Gurden
"How do Psionics work against the Borg and the Collective? Can the Borg eventually learn to adapt against different forms of Psionic abilities? Could the Borg eventually adapt to use Psionics? Discuss."

I would say that a psionic attack against a borg drone would be useless. Since, in essense the borg share a single mind the attacker would be attacking every borg at once - and unless he/she is an exceptionally powerful psionic it would be useless.

The exception of course, is the Borg Queen. A psionic attack on her would work, IMO since she is an "individual."

I would have to say psionic adaption in Borg against different abilities would be a possibility. It's been established that the borg can adapt to resist different phaser frequencies - why can't they adapt to resist different "psionic frequencies" (brain-wave patterns)? But can the borg use psionics? I'd say no, again due to the hive mind. I one drone is psionic, they're all psionic.

[Silverthorne]

Certian attacks would work on a single drone. mind control.. attempting to block thier connection to the collective. those would work on a drone.. the only problem is that they are already mind controled and the collective is a stong connection. If you are able to take control over someone in the collective the others will know it...

[oops1]

The borg use of "conventional" psionics seems rather unlikely. Most uses of such powers requires the exertion of will. Admittedly not to the point of distraction where telepathy is concerned, but a effort just the same. A drone does not appear to exhibit that type of mental faculty, with the exception of Hugh, and his development was rather limited, definitely not to the level of direct, controlled contact with a non-borg psionically. The queen would be a likely candidate for such abilities, as she is the focus of the entire race's potential and direction. Another possibility would be the partial conversion of a drone (ala Lucrutis).

As a further example of the unlikelyhood of a drone using psionics, most beings that are forcible assimilated have all individuality removed, including the ability to exert their own will.

Just a few thoughts

Peter

[qerlin]

Trying psi on the Borg, I would set the difficulty as if hitting the entire collective (at least a few thou' on the cube or whatever; more if they're in contact with other ships...) They don't appear to use psi, but if they've got a psi race, they might be able to use that drone -- I don;t think it would apply across the collective.

[Karg]

This is cool, I can use it here

http://forum.trek-rpg.net./showthrea...&threadid=7420

[Alex Pryde]

I'm willing to bet the Borg already have had access to psionic abilities. Because they have assimiliated some Vulcans and some Betaziods at Wolf 359... Granted that cube exploded, but we have also seen humans, klingons, etc in Voyager in the Borg collective. So they have had experience with psionics.

I agree with the concept that the only Borg that can be 'attacked' with telepathy would be the queen as the rest of the Borg are drones. However, she's used to controlling how many trillions of drones. Her mental focus has to be insane and therefore very hard to pentrate her mind.

As for using such biologicial technology... I think the Borg would see it as inferior as it generally takes concentration to use and thus is less efficient than their cyborg implants.

[Dan Gurden]

OK, so Borg and Psionics... Put my money where my mouth is...

This is my opinion, and will likely end up in the finished book. Although disagreements, corrections and further discussions are welcome, and may convince me to alter my opinion. Otherwise, this may well end up as a preview.

The Borg;

Drones have no Psionics. The act of assimilation strips the individualism from a Drone, and while 'Biological and Technological distinctiveness' is being added to the collective, the nano-probes are effectively rewiring a Drones Brain with all the Hardware required, turning a significant portion of 'redundant brain tissue' into a massive computer with subspace communication transponders. Just as the Vulcan Science Directorate refused to believe in Time Travel for centuries, so the Borg seem to have developed a Blind Spot in relation to Psionics. They just do not accept their presence and application beyond that of an intermittent nuisance.

After all, by far the most common abilities are that of Empaths and Telepaths. The loss of Individualism renders Empathic abilities redundant, and Telepathy is far to 'biological' in nature and far less efficient in comparison to a hard-wired subspace connection to the Collective. Other, far rarer, abilities have not yet been encountered, but it seems logical that if the Borg have deemed Psionic abilities worthless to the collective, then abilities that seem rare in Biological entities could easily be missed by the Collective, abilities such as Telekinesis, Pyrokinesis, etc. and therefore erased during assimilation before their advantages become clear.

The use of Psionics against the Borg are another matter. To date Empathy has proven futile, the Borg do not assign an emotional state to their actions, and such empathy has an equal effect as empathising with a Computer. Coinsidentaly, the best predictions of Borg activity to date have come from Vulcan research teams, a species that seems to share many traits with Computers (at least in common parlance)... Telepathy is actually dangerous. Connecting with a Borg is just like connecting with the entire collective, and there are very few Telepaths capable of withstanding such an onslaught. Loss of personality, brain dammage, cereberal haemoraging are common results. Mind Melds are equally impossible, with touch-contact usually an initiation to Assimilation, nobody has even tried. Confidential reports state that the USS Voyager stranded in the Delta Quadrant has rescued a Borg Drone, and once individualism is restored, Mind Melds are possible, up to and even including limited contact to the collective, as long as the danger from assimilation has been removed. Although this Meld does put a great strain on the Melder

This leaves the rarer forms of Psionics. Even amongst the wide diversity of the Federation, these abilities are few and far between and as such no accurate study has been available over their effects against the Borg. Speculation varies however. While some feel that there is no possible way that the Borg would be able to adapt the the use of Psioics in an offensice capacity, the sheer rarity of these powers limits their effectiveness against the collective. Another school of thought feels that some Psi-Attacks would be adaptable. Powers such as PK, would simply be hurling objects at the Borg, a simple kinetic attack and of minor consequence, while Pyrokinesis might actually be adapted to after the first coulpe of Drones spontaneously combust...

The biggest danger actualy lies in revealing these powers to the Borg. Simply the thought that the Collective might target these Biological componants to add to the collective, or deem them a threat and aim to remove said threat in a similar fashion to their destruction of the El Aurian homeworld over a century ago. One thing is sure, this discussion will go on.



NOTE: The absence of the Queen in this opinion is deliberate, for me the Borg are a souless threat, while the queen deliberatly breaks all the rules. In my universe this is explained as an Avatar. The Queen is simply an interface, a specialist Drone for dealing with 'lesser species' (like humans). She looks like an individual, acts like an individual, and simulates emotion. However, she is merely a tool of the Collective, rather than the other way around... (This also helps to justify several Voyager episodes too... So bonus for me).

[Brian K]

Originally posted by Dan Gurden

The Borg;

Drones have no Psionics. The act of assimilation strips the individualism from a Drone, and while 'Biological and Technological distinctiveness' is being added to the collective, the nano-probes are effectively rewiring a Drones Brain with all the Hardware required, turning a significant portion of 'redundant brain tissue' into a massive computer with subspace communication transponders. Just as the Vulcan Science Directorate refused to believe in Time Travel for centuries, so the Borg seem to have developed a Blind Spot in relation to Psionics. They just do not accept their presence and application beyond that of an intermittent nuisance.[/B]

I would say this feels the best route for me. The Borg simply rewire the psionic potential that the drone may have had at one time. The biological wiring is no longer there, it is so unecessary. The Borg don't need the psi advantage, but I like the idea of the plot hook with psi species that have been assimulated. I guess a backlash of this would be if a psi character started poking around the collective, the collective knows you are there, and that character may become recognized as a threat...poor saps.

Hmm...I think I am going to use that....Thanks Dan!!

Nice write up Dan, I think that the Borg are the uber meance as well, even if the last screen version of the Borg were infected with the SpaceMonkey Virus, the rest are just mean, and immune to SpaceMonkey!!

[Balok]

I believe using psionics against an individual drone is possible, although not terribly useful. I would apply the "radically different species" modifier, since the drone's brain has been significantly altered by assimilation. With successful contact, you'd get what the drone was thinking about, which would be any directives it had received from the collective. If you selected the drone carefully, you might conceivably gather intelligence. A drone would be assumed to resist the attempt automatically.

Attempting to contact the entire collective would be impossible. At 1024 minds, you're already at -18 on the roll; there are at multi-trillions of minds in the collective. Even if the telepath succeeded, the resulting torrential flood of information would probably lead to almost immediate insanity.

The same basic ideas would apply to mind control. However, the collective would attempt to repair a malfunctioning drone, which means you'd pick up (effectively) the "multi-mind" modifier. Also, it's unlikely that you could use a mind controlled drone for any length of time (depending on what you did with it) because once the collective percieved the malfuncting drone as a threat, it would be instructed to self-destruct, or nearby drones would be instructed to destroy it.

I'd be inclined to assume that the collective does not understand psionics to any great degree. The reasons: (1) we've seen no real canon evidence that it does, (2) psionics could be looked at as an alternate form of communication, or control, or insight -- the collective can already achieve all of these things mechanically, therefore psionics is not "distinctive". Now, if some group of players consistently, successfully, used psionics against drones, the collective might be able to develop a mechanical way to block the particular mental energies involved.

Some here might remember the telepathic computer "Landru" that was able to absorb and control the people of Beta 2000 (TOS: The Return of the Archons). If the collective were to assimilate such a machine, well, the universe would get a whole lot more dangerous -- the Borg could begin the assimilation process at range, controlling source beings so that they surrender themselves for assimilation...

I think the Borg (prior to their Voyager era dumbing down) are dangerous enough.

I don't believe attacking the Queen would be any more useful or productive than attacking a drone. My view of her is that she is a facet of the collective, downloaded into a suitable drone (hence the extra processing hardware mounted on her head). However, if that drone "malfunctioned" (was controlled or in telepathic contact), it would be treated as any other drone -- self-destructed, destroyed. The collective would then prepare another drone and decant the facet into it.

Next week's topic: If a drone sees a Medusan, does it become insane? What effect will that have on the collective? Can the collective react fast enough to destroy the afflicted drone(s)? Or can it cope with what it sees?

[Phoenix]

Ok, here's a curve. Would the Psi Ability of Mind Shield help with resisting the assimilation process? In the hopeful event of an atempted rescue for the poor dumb 'red-shirt' type person.

[Trinity Zeldis]

In a word, Phoenix, no.

If it could stop it, then all you'd need is a fleet of psionically gifted individuals to fight DA BORG. But, as we see so often, DA BORG just keep on assimilating. However, your thought does raise another. How similar are the Shadows of B5 to DA BORG?

[Balok]

Originally posted by Phoenix
Ok, here's a curve. Would the Psi Ability of Mind Shield help with resisting the assimilation process? In the hopeful event of an atempted rescue for the poor dumb 'red-shirt' type person.

I would say not. Assimilation is a mechanical process, not a psionic process. The only species (that we know about) that was able to resist assimilation was Species 8472 -- they had an immune system that was able to destroy the Borg nanoprobes.

[Phoenix]

Accually Species 8472 compleatly ignored assimilation, that wasn't resisting, that was NA na Na nA NA you can touch me ...

Tuvok mentally resisted the full mental effects of assimilation in the last season (yes, there were other elements included here, but), for a limited amount of time. What I'm trying to say is can I use my willpower to resist the collective will of the Borg for a little longer, not the equipment that has been installed. Did that help out in clearing up the question?

[Capt.Hunter]

The Medusan issue is easy - humans go insane when seeing Medusans because their physical form is so alien we can't comprehend it (a Lovecraftian concept if ever there was). The Borg have encountered species from omnidimensional space and potentially further afield. I'd guess they could wrap their collective brain around the idea of a Medusan. If not, they would have the rather useful ability to just forget what they can't understand.