Which spells are these?

[erhershman]

I was watching my DVD of the FotR movie earlier today, and I noticed two places that made me wonder which spells from the RPG might be being used at that moment. The Decipher development team said all the spells in the core book come directly from Tolkien, whether that is the book, the movie, or both, I don't know.

So two places I wondered about:

1. When Gandalf and Saruman have their little duel in Orthanc. The closest spell I found in the book would be Wizard's Hand, but that spell says it must be a small object "that the caster could lift with his own strength." I suppose Gandalf or Saruman could lift one another with their own strength if they absolutely had to, but the kind of tossing around they were doing in the scene doesn't seem to fit with the description of Wizard's Hand.

2. When the Orcs surrounding the fellowship in Moria scatter all of a sudden and Gandalf says "A Balrog... a demon of the ancient world." How does Gandalf know a Balrog is coming? It's pretty much silent except for the constant drumming noise. It might be Sense Power but I thought Sense Power couldn't detect WHAT that power was, only that it was present?

Can anyone help me here?

Also, I thought it might be interesting, while we're on this subject, if we could all work together to figure out where in the LotR all the spells are used, since they are all from Tolkien.

[Doug Burke]

Originally posted by erhershman
1. When Gandalf and Saruman have their little duel in Orthanc. The closest spell I found in the book would be Wizard's Hand, but that spell says it must be a small object "that the caster could lift with his own strength." I suppose Gandalf or Saruman could lift one another with their own strength if they absolutely had to, but the kind of tossing around they were doing in the scene doesn't seem to fit with the description of Wizard's Hand.

Wizard's Fist, detailed in the Fellowship of the Ring sourcebook.

2. When the Orcs surrounding the fellowship in Moria scatter all of a sudden and Gandalf says "A Balrog... a demon of the ancient world." How does Gandalf know a Balrog is coming? It's pretty much silent except for the constant drumming noise. It might be Sense Power but I thought Sense Power couldn't detect WHAT that power was, only that it was present?

Got me there. Could be Sense Power, could be experience with Balrogs, could be dramatic revelation...

[Phantom]

Originally posted by erhershman
2. When the Orcs surrounding the fellowship in Moria scatter all of a sudden and Gandalf says "A Balrog... a demon of the ancient world." How does Gandalf know a Balrog is coming? It's pretty much silent except for the constant drumming noise. It might be Sense Power but I thought Sense Power couldn't detect WHAT that power was, only that it was present?

Its my impression, from the movie anyway, Gandalf knew what the Dwarves had released in the quest for riches. So, when a Big Bad suddenly shows up in Moria, he had a beter then 50% chance saying it was the Balrog.

[Mijoro]

Originally posted by Phantom
Its my impression, from the movie anyway, Gandalf knew what the Dwarves had released in the quest for riches.

I'm inclined to agree. When Saruman is looking through the book he says (about Gandalf) something like "You know what the Dwarves released..." And when the orcs scattered when the hall lit up the expression on his face led me to believe he knew what it was.

However, I think it's interesting that in the book Gandalf did not know about the Balrog in Moria. When the Fellowship is turned back at Caradras he says he wanted to head into Moria initially, and then after the battle in the Chamber of Marazabul:

"As I stood there I could hear orc-voices on the outside: at any moment they would burst it open. I could not hear what they said; they seemed to be talking in their own hideous language. All I caught was ghâsh: that is fire. Then something came into the chamber - I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent. It laid hold of the iron ring and then it perceived me and my spell.

What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such challenge."

Apparently the Istari don't know everything.

[toadkiller]

I always gave Gandalf a little leeway there and assumed that he could guess, but the tensions of the moment led him to not guess. Morale was bad enough without him making a list of the bad things it might be .

I'd suspect that he had a short list of what the big bad was before going in - and most of all figured that it did not actually serve Mordor whatever it was. I'd use the sense spell and say that only a Balrog - of the available options - would be of that magnitude....

But I'm just making stuff up .