The Traveler was never 'bested;' he behaved essentially the same as you'd expect some angelic, morally superior creature to—hell, in 'Journey's End' he explicitly guides Wesley into a mystical ritual in order to develop spiritually.
Whether Q was bested depends on how much you think he was messing with people.
I was never a fan of Lucretius' argument, actually. It's a little too aesthetic in nature.They posed as gods but were proven to be very much flawed and fallible.
Well, except for the Pah Wraiths.The only ones who were really treated with respect were the wormhole aliens, because they were largely benign and positive.
As the current crop of neo-humanists are fond of demonstrating, there's nothing stopping people ascribing mystical value or feelings of religious adoration to scientific concepts.Yes many people had quasi-mystical beliefs, but they were either genuine superscience abilities (like telepathy etc) which were provable and scientific and therefore simply.. science..
Just secular dogma, as Quark is fond of pointing out.Yes, they respect and allow for personal beliefs, and don't tread on people's right to self-determination. There's a huge gulf between not allowing religious dogma to lead the Federation's policies and laws,
The definition of 'church' and 'state,' however, is the result of a very specific historical framework, being the history of Catholicism and Protestantism in Europe and the parallel or intermingled development of the modern nation-state. Just as Anglo historians have had a hard time categorizing 'Confucianism' and its relationship to Chinese political entities, using those words to describe a the culture of an alien species is inaccurate at best and misleading at worst. (And that's before you even get into materialist NRMs like Raelianism or Scientology or totalitarian cults of personality.)and banning people WITH religious beliefs from office. I see it as (obviously) akin to the tenet of separation of church and state in modern day America. (which you guys theoretically are supposed to have...)
But this is one of those places where the allegorical nature of Trek and worldbuilding considerations end up in intractable conflict, since alien cultures in Trek are usually just humans by any other name. Rarely is the problem of non-parallel development addressed.
The human writers are the ones bringing it in, though, making it obvious that certain kinds of mystical claptrap are assumed to be the provenance of 'advanced species.' (cf. Roddenberry's TMP novelization). Now, using it as a means to SF-ize discussions of religious topics might be the point, but that has to include the fact that Sarek was clear that the katra was 'Spock's essential being,' and that V'ger needed to bond with a human—and by implication, some mystical quality possessed by a human instead of a merely-sentient planet-size artificial intelligence—in order to ascend to a higher plane of existence. V'ger was looking for God, and got what it was looking for.In the case of the Vulcans, they are almost entirely secular. They have a form of ancestor reverence, but that's more akin to the extolation of the virtues of characteristics they admire. Their psionic abilities actually *work* so they aren't quasi-mystical claptrap, they can actually read minds (as opposed to faith healing and spiritualism, which have been exposed as fraud in every single scientific study, here, on earth), so you can't conflate the two.
Except for Kira. And Weyoun. Possibly Kim, given the crucifix. And, technically, that was the entire point of Star Trek V.'what would god want me to do' was never a choice a crew member would face.
But why does 'alien' automatically equate to 'lacking in divine being'? Trek has no end of exhortations toward humanist adorations of human consciousness as a noble, meaningful and willful thing; crews only really get fussy with god-like aliens talking down to them. Guys like the Traveler, who feed them lines about 'potential' and 'further stages of evolution' they seem to be okay with.They always had to make their own, often very hard, and derisive, decisions. If they met a 'ghost' or a 'spirit' or a 'god' it always turned out to be an alien or a trick, consistently, throughout the show.