I like Starships, but...

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Snake_Plissken
I was just pointing out that there was always room to create new rules and that it is impossible for a ruleset to cover all the aspects, especially when you're dealing with plot-device ships like the Scimitar.

And I was simply pointing out that had I access to those materials I would have included them. I'm not being defensive, merely stating facts.

Criticism is an valuable aspect of writing to improve one's work and I value it. Anyone who has purchased the product has the right to voice their opinion.

[Shoshuro]

I have to agree with the number of ships..well..not ness the number but 4 pages per ship seemed a lil too much. IMHO the layout could've been tightened up a little bit and brought in either A: more ships or B: more rule options.

[KillerWhale]

Duh. Back from an extensive week-end and I see the discussion has kinda raised passions, I'm sorry about that...

Don: I hope my phrasing hasn't hurt you nor anyone at Dec's feelings: I respect and like your work very much. Please tell me if it is the case; if so, I do apologize.

[Space_Cadet]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
[Edit] Sorry it didn't meet your expectations.

"Starships" was written nearly a year ago and no advanced copies of the Nemesis script were given to me. I can't write about items I have no knowledge of (the Scimitar).

Hey man, its ok...the book is great. Besdies, Nemesis sucks. You did an awesome job!!

[Eric R.]

Bought mine today and have looked it over and read about 3/4ths. In general I am positive about the book however there are some very discouraging pints i like to make. I would like to note most of the compliants I have are things beyond Dons control he (and Dave) wrote a good book there is no doubt in my mind about that.

My CON points
1.) It seems like the layout reeeeaaaallllyyyy stretched out the ship write ups ( I should know I made 2 pages of material in college streach out to become five) however I like the idea of breaking the notes up into mission, features, background and famous ship sections this gives the non RPG buyer something to really sink there teeth into. However what write ups I have read so far are quite limited in scope and, well sorry to say, show no originality leaning mainly on established canon and not adding anything new to the universe. for example the Excellsior write up shows a ship which has made several appearences in the TNG era and no new intersting facts are conceieved to show what these ships did between the Movie era and TNG era. The Dominion war era (DS9) seems completely downplayed, ships are either said to have been involved only a little or not all (if they wern't featured on DS9) meanwhile TNG and Voyager events seem to be given top billing and deeper wrtie ups. And don't get me started on what I have to say is a complete disreguard in artwork to what has been done before. Almost ever ship seen has been done in a Star Trek Magazine Technical Briefing and done MUCH better. And what does the world or game industry have against just plain line schemtics these days?

2.) The text in the opening chapter is great and adds much to the basic system which was its goal, frankly at this point of time I rather the basic system be expanded rather then a new one introduced. However the layout gremlins strike again on average each bottom margin is 1 inch and 1/4 in length as compared to the 5/8th margin of the Narrators guide! Top measures the same 1 and 1/4 in with the narrators book coming in at roughly 1 inch. side margins are equal to those of the Narrators guide roughly 7/8th. The real shocker is when you compare the text print size the Starship book is much larger then the narrators guide even by the naked eye coparing. In addition there are five pictures which take up at least 1/3 to 2/3 of an entire page. The table sizes are equal in eye. The end result is a feeling that the text was really streached out to fit 30 pages. My feeling is that even with the pictures there is not more then 12-15 pages of text (by the narrator book standard.

3.) I have mention this before but I want to realy harp on this the book as while as the entire game system so far has showed NO ORIGINALITY in the sense of adding to the trek universe to make it distinctively its own game setting. Each game before (FASA and LUG) has managed to do this successfully adding its own queint bits and pieces to the larger trek universe be that the triangle setting or the Artiline Sector. Now this compliant is often heard when talking about a liscense product as it is one subject to approvals and oversieght and thus liberties with the material is constrained within those limits but if Decipher was really making an effort to make their "own mark" in this regards some of that original unique material should be "slipping" through. However every ship seen in this book is a canon vessel, there are no original designs as one would expect and the excuss that there are rules to build your own is frankly a cop out in my mind.

4.) This book should have been smaller and should have cost less. There is no excuse for the size of this book the material is much smaller then the layout and format suggest. It is almost as if Decipher has chosen the one book its knows just about everybody will want (both gamer and non-gamer) and run the cost up so as to recoup last years lack of product and the subsequent loss of profit. Frankly the best idea would have been to merge the Starship operations book and current Starship book into a single book, now that would have been something worth 35 or even 40 doallrs!

[Don Mappin]

Originally posted by Eric R.
However every ship seen in this book is a canon vessel, there are no original designs as one would expect and the excuss that there are rules to build your own is frankly a cop out in my mind.

I'm just going to pop in and say that "Starships" does have an original design, the Harmony. In addition, several ships are detailed that, while canon, have not received any substantive treatment in any publication thus far. For example, the Altair, the Class III tanker, the Aerie, the DY transports, etc. So, from my viewpoint, those are essentially 'new' vessels.

As for the lack of original designs, I feel your firmly in the minority on this one. If anything people wanted to see more canon ships. All I've heard since release is where are the Miranda, the Constellation, the New Orleans, etc. Frankly, spending space on original designs for a system that includes its own construction rules is not a suitable expenditure of space at this time. With so many canon ships, people seem to want those designs now rather than later.

All clearly IMO. It's not within my purview to address your other comments.

[Eric R.]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
I'm just going to pop in and say that "Starships" does have an original design, the Harmony.

Just noticed the Harmony write up thanks to you poinitng it out, BTW is that ship, or should I say white spot, going in or out of the wormhole?

As for the lack of original designs, I feel your firmly in the minority on this one. If anything people wanted to see more canon ships. All I've heard since release is where are the Miranda, the Constellation, the New Orleans, etc.

A valid point, hey I am one of those who wanted to see more canon ships however due to the size of the Starfleet Operations Manual maybe most of the canon Stafleet ships cold hve been in it and the SOM could have been released after Starships meanwhile the Federation designs in Starships could have been all original or reworked official LUG designs (Apollo, Deneva, Merced and/or Rigel anyone) with a few canon ships? But that is an executive decision I guess.

[Phantom]

Ummm, aren't the Miranda, Constellation and New Orleans-classes canon classes?

[mattcolville]

Starships was done under the Old Regime, before Jess Heinig came on board. It was originally envisioned as just a big book of starships, and that's pretty much what you get. I can't speak for Jess, but I'd wager than if he has anything to do with it, you'll get a Starships II or maybe a CODA Spacedock book that's more a Big Book Of Starship Rules, rather than just a Big Book of Starships.