Sussman on "Regeneration"

[Kirok]

from trekweb http://talk.trekweb.com/articles/200...050966096.html

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"I consider myself something of a 'continuity hound'," Sussman writes. "While I admit the show isn't always airtight in this regard, we do try our best, and with 'Regeneration,' I paid very close attention to these issues. As a fan, nothing takes me out of an episode faster than an obvious contradiction with what's been established previously."

Sussman says that the stickling point for many preemptive reviewers--that STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION firmly established that the Federation's first encounter with the Borg was in the episode "Q Who?"--is incorrect.

"The Enterprise-D's encounter in J-25 was NOT the Federation's initial contact with the Borg," he says. "It's made quite clear in 'Q, Who' that the Borg wiped out several Federation and Romulan outposts along the Neutral Zone in the TNG season one finale (appropriately titled 'The Neutral Zone'). This fact seems to have been generally ignored in future episodes, but it is definitively established in 'Q Who?'"

Sussman goes on to cite VOYAGER's "Dark Frontier," which posited that the Borg had visited Federation territory long before the events of "Q Who?" He says "Regeneration" seeks to offer an explanation for these seemingly contradictory facts.

"What made them interested in our part of the galaxy? Did the Collective have some kind of 'inside information' about Earth or the Federation? Without giving too much away, I can safely say that 'Regeneration' will present one POSSIBLE answer."

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Kirok

"The Enterprise-D's encounter in J-25 was NOT the Federation's initial contact with the Borg," he says. "It's made quite clear in 'Q, Who' that the Borg wiped out several Federation and Romulan outposts along the Neutral Zone in the TNG season one finale (appropriately titled 'The Neutral Zone'). This fact seems to have been generally ignored in future episodes, but it is definitively established in 'Q Who?'"

From what I remember this positon is the incorrect one. In "The Neutral Zone" neither the Federation nor the Romulans knew what was happening to their colonies. In fact they both believed it was the other perpretrating the attacks, and didn't realize it was the Borg until much later.

So, J-25 is the first face to face meeting between the Borg and the Alpha Quadrant.

This is a really weak defense for having the Borg in Enterprise. Besides it has already been hinted at that the Borg found in this upcoming ep were from the Borg Sphere in FC. Which is an idea I can't accept and see it as a further degeneration of this supposed Trek series.

[Don Mappin]

ENT ratings down over 25%...

Borg raise ratings...

Thus, Borg on ENT.

Everything else is just talk. Spin it however you want.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Don Mappin
ENT ratings down over 25%...

Hadn't heard that yet. Hmm, down 25% eh? Gee, I wonder why? I don't think that the Borg will "Regenerate" that drop.

[Capt. K. Vaughn]

That is quite the drop. Not really surprising. I doubt the Borg will raise it much if at all.

Though I will grant I am enjoying the show as science fiction and it continues to fuel my curiousity for when the LE comes out. I want the Enterprise insert.

Regards,
CKV.

[Trinity Zeldis]

Gee...

WHY WON'T PEOPLE LISTEN TO THEMSELVES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This Sussman guy is quite the idiot of he really beleives he can set right 2 (or is it three) years of the hell that is Antiprise?

The ONLY means by which past Borg would have information is when that sphere sends out a multiplexing signal to the delta quadrant. This, in and of itself, violates causality. After all, how would past-borg (pB) be able to understand future-borg (fB) without the proper technology? Supposing there is sufficient technology, the new tech that would immediately be shared by fB to pB would improve borg technology, thus making all those wonderful advances in Federation tech obsolete. Hell, even the means by which the borg were defeated at earth (BoBW 2) would not work when finally tried.

Now let us assume also, that I buy into this Borg queen crap. Why would she, the most borg obsessed being in the universe, send herself on a dangerous mission? She wouldn't for it would turn off all the borg (unless she did that whole back up thing). This also would violate I, Hugh.

In short, after TNG went off the air, the borg are ratings boosters that are now failing due to improper use.

If you really think about it, how could the crew of the Antiprise hope to even have a chance against a Borg vessel, even if it is a scout?

[Snake_Plissken]

Besides it has already been hinted at that the Borg found in this upcoming ep were from the Borg Sphere in FC. Which is an idea I can't accept and see it as a further degeneration of this supposed Trek series.

wow... you're the guy who loved Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones right?

This Sussman guy is quite the idiot of he really beleives he can set right 2 (or is it three) years of the hell that is Antiprise?

double wow... good going calling him an 'idiot'. Class act.

The ONLY means by which past Borg would have information is when that sphere sends out a multiplexing signal to the delta quadrant. This, in and of itself, violates causality. After all, how would past-borg (pB) be able to understand future-borg (fB) without the proper technology? Supposing there is sufficient technology, the new tech that would immediately be shared by fB to pB would improve borg technology, thus making all those wonderful advances in Federation tech obsolete. Hell, even the means by which the borg were defeated at earth (BoBW 2) would not work when finally tried.

my head hurts... I'll go multiplex my lunch in the past-Borg microwave in my backstore.


edited typo

[Trinity Zeldis]

Fine, you don't like the word idiot. Shall we try...

ignoramous
moron
fool
imbecile
arrogant bastard
self appreciating and stylized savior of Trek

I have more but you get the idea. As for trying to make it a logical, concise, and calm debate, that time has passed. They have spent too much time screwing things up.

For some, it is a TV show. For others, it is myth. For others yet, it is a religion.

For me, Antiprise is a TV show, the others are myth, future myth. Now I can debate myth as much as the next guy. There are inconsistencies and other problems, but all in all, there are basic facts about the mythologies that cannot be dissuaded. Thor is the Norse god of thunder, Zeus is the Greek ruler of the gods, Ra is the Egyptian sun god, et al.

Trek is the same. Vulcans are logical, refusing to show emotions; Borg are an unmoving, uncaring, inhuman force for conquest of the individual and altering into the drone; Klingons are brutish, bestial and violent; et al.

Looking at some of the myths-turned-tv, we find Hercules and Xena, there's that kids' show on PBS that teaches about different myths, Stargate (after a fashion), and a very small spattering of others, mostly as stories within other TV series. For the most part, the treatment of said myths is to alter them to fit the appropriate storyline. I find this acceptable because they are not part of the overall theme of the show (it's akin to the Father Dowling mysteries where Catholic beleif and ritual is downplayed and in a few cases are wrong). However, shows like Hercules and Xena, being set to the myth itself have to be more accurate. And in this assessment, I think those two shows (Xena being based more on profit than myth) have done an acceptable, if sometimes obviously flagrant abuse, of rendering the myths of the time.

Now Star Trek. Trek, like Star Wars, has developed a strange subculture in the sense there are those who try to live up to the various messages inherent in the medium. Trek has rules. Antiprise breaks these rules. Is it therefore Trek? Let me ask it this way: The Catholic church has rules, in Dogma, Kevin Smith, a Catholic, breaks those rules. Is his portrayal of the Catholic church THE Catholic church? Obviously not.

Paramount owns the liscence to Trek, but it is the fans who have given to defining it. Just because something is labelled as Trek, does not make it so. Paramount called the animated series Trek. No one else does. Paramount has allowed all those books to be called Trek. Who here considers any of those books canon? Paramount calls Antiprise Trek. It should be obvious by now that it is ...Trek-lite, fabricated for the infidel masses.

As for using da BORG to enhance ratings....

Just one more continuity violation from a series that is the bastard child of something awesome. Seems to me like Sussman wants the mantle for being the man who saved Trek.

Trek isn't dying, Antiprise is.

All hail Star Trek!

Long live Star Trek!










I know I'll get flak for this, but my stance has not changed and will not change. I'd hate to have to quote him, but, "Opinion backed by fact is unstoppable."

[Rayaru]

Wait and watch the episode before you rip it to shreds. Who knows, it might be good.

[Dan Gurden]

Or we can try option C

GROW UP!

Every damned week I come on these boards and see the same few people ragging on Enterprise.

I can promise you. We got your point. We got it a couple of years back when you were ragging on it, before the show had even aired a single episode.

I for one dont really care for it, I'll watch if I got nothing else to do or if the show sounds good. but nowhere near as religiously as DS9 or Voyager...

Surely if you couldn't care less about the show, dont watch it, and then spend a good chunk of your online time complaining are simply wating your lives. Learn where the off button is and go outside and play in fraffic or something. Because you really seem to need the fresh air.

At the very least if you have to try and take down the show piece by piece try 'constructive' critisism (thats where your critisism might add a bonus effect like re-interpreting or simply make people think twice. ie; "Brannon and Braga suck" is NOT contructive critisism, just a personal insult...

ALternatively, put your money where your mouth is. Write some teleplays and get them filmed as Trek shows thus taking an active part in solving all your complaints. (Downside is you may need to become a billionaire media0mogul to get this done... But I bet it'll be worth it...)

But if all you got is a repeat of the same old lines revamped for a new show or target. Then please. For Gods Sake, find a new show to watch. One you actually like!

[StyroFoam Man]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[Trinity Zeldis]

Write some teleplays and get them filmed as Trek shows thus taking an active part in solving all your complaints. (Downside is you may need to become a billionaire media0mogul to get this done... But I bet it'll be worth it...)

Oh, would that I could. However, all attempts (including the seed ideas) have been rejected on the grounds of, "...are not in keeping with the new vision and direction of Star Trek: Enterprise...."

Now when an idea of mine was accepted for TNG (actually, I think it was just several people and I had the same idea), I was astounded. But many of my ideas (read all save that one) have been rejected for one reason or another (many of which I agree with upon later reflection).

As for not watching the series, I don't. I just feel the same way about people talking about how wonderful it is as you do about me ranting about it.

Wait and watch the episode before you rip it to shreds. Who knows, it might be good.

I've been waiting two years for a good episode. I'm not waiting anymore. The way I see it, it's a corollary (I may be mistaken, it's been awhile since I took a philosophy course or had to use the word) of the adage, "Watch at least two episodes of a series because anyone can have a bad day." In Antiprise's case though, "Watch at least two episodes of a series because anyone can have a good day."

If the crew of that ship is any indication of the idealized form of "Starfleet," then the Federation would never have made it. Every fledgling society throughout human history has been militant until establishing themselves. The Federation isn't even a concept yet, and the earth is just now going out into the veiled expanse.

Suspension of disbeleif. Watching Star Trek requires this on an unusually high basis. A writer's guide to this is, "Never give your audience more than three things to disbeleive." Star Trek actually started this way back in '66. Once a new concept was accepted as a "future fact," another disbelief could be placed.

Antiprise gives us...I'll itemize the disbeleifs.

I. All the rest of Star Trek continuity is wrong.
A. Phasers instead of lasers (violating The Cage and The Menagerie)
B. Location of Klingon homeworld (violation of...well...)
C. Shape of the ship (STTMP, and later seasons of DS9)
II. Linguist able to analyze and program the universal translator with only 3 phrases being repeated over and over again.
A. Same linguist being able to hear and mimic in the ultrasonic range. (Forgot which episode she did this in)
III. Established races not behaving as established
A. See previous postings
IV. Captain is a "loving-feeling-caring-politically correct" kind of captain after being a survival of a war torn planet.

Gee, that's already 4 if you use the main points alone, add in the others and it's at least 8.

Now, remove the words "Star Trek" from the title and all reference to the paradigms it brings, yes, I would enjoy the show and watch it. However, because of the continuous references, I refuse to for sake of simplicity.

Voyager, too had it's problems. But there was at least an attempt (however trite) to keep everything close, if unbeleivable. But let me get this out of the way before anyone beats me to it.
I. Kazon are slower, but always ended up in front of Voyager. And they did this for two years.
II. That one little cargo bay was sufficient to feed the entire crew for seven years.
III. So worried about fuel? Why not just get a smack load of batteries to store all the surplus generated. (and thus get rid of that aeroponics bay.
IV. Janeway
V. da BORG
VI. Final episode.

There are many many others, but this is just the basics. Besides, with Voyager, hope always sprang eternal that they'd get it right. Failing with 7 years of Voyager, why am I disappointed with Antiprise?

[Liz Not Beth]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[Trinity Zeldis]

You just now got that?

And it was not meant to be clever. Clever would be figuring out how to give birth and still being a human male. Clever would be actually figuring out FTL. Clever would be me convincing my mother that dropping her fen-phen lawsuit was a bad idea (don't ask, but the woman actually did this, 2 days before the judge was going to rule).

I am by no means clever. I take old ideas and mix them with others and then i see what comes out. That's all.



P.S. If I was clever, I would have made a witty retort. (mmmmmmmmm retorts)

[Snake_Plissken]

ok fine you don't like Enterprise. I happen to. 'Vote' with your remote and don't watch the bloody thing.