Attitudes on the Boards

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Phantom
The same can be said for the naysayers, we don't need to be constantly reminded on how "good" the show is either. This is a forum, after all, you have to take the good opinions with the bad. This last point is what a lot of people around here have a problem with.

You're right, we do have to take the good opinions with the bad. But with Enterprise the negative opinions seem to be more along the lines of 'Enterprise sucks. Berman and Braga should be shot', rather than, 'I disagree, I don't like the way the show portrays Klingons'.

This a Trek forum, so some of us are going to be discussing Enterprise, like it or not. And some of us enjoy the show.

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Greg Smith
You're right, we do have to take the good opinions with the bad. But with Enterprise the negative opinions seem to be more along the lines of 'Enterprise sucks. Berman and Braga should be shot', rather than, 'I disagree, I don't like the way the show portrays Klingons'.

This a Trek forum, so some of us are going to be discussing Enterprise, like it or not. And some of us enjoy the show.

And Greg like it or not alot of people hate the show but like Phantom write they too have the right to say they hate it as much as you say you love it. As he stated below:

Originally posted by Phantom

The same can be said for the naysayers, we don't need to be constantly reminded on how "good" the show is either. This is a forum, after all, you have to take the good opinions with the bad. This last point is what a lot of people around here have a problem with

You like the show Greg that is great that is your opinion but as Phantom pointed out BOTH sides have the right to Post their opinions. But people who hate the show are no more wrong hating the show as you liking the show. Love or Hate Enterprise or any other show or movie or any idea or what not presented in the Forum you can post if we love or hate it. No one is right or wrong Posting their opinion if they like the show.

What this is coming down to this whole Thread is this: Not all of us agree on everything nor will any of us? Why? Simple. We are individuals with our own ideas and beliefs. Our own interests, our own tastes, our own genders, our own backgrounds etc. This is because we are all people all different mind sets if we all agreed and acted with one mind on the board here we would all be the Borg.
Let's just all agree to disagree and have just fun in this board.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

There is a world of difference between posting your opinion and hitting people over the head with it. Or in some cases deliberately provoking them.

Unfortunately, many of the people who post negative opinions don't know how to be polite, or respect those who hold an opposing viewpoint. Heck, some of them don't even grasp the concept that it is just their opinion, yet still demand we respect what they say, despite the lack of respect they have for others.

The problem is not the posting of opinions, it's the attitude behind the posts. If you don't give respect you sure as hell are not going to get it back.

[Publius]

I think we are past the 'Its my opinion like it or lump it' stage, or even the decision to 'agree to disagree' because enough people have noticed the atmosphere that they have started threads like this one. Maybe if you don't agree with a particular thread you can just move on rather than involve yourself. If a thread develops on Enterprise or Starfleet Marines or whatever you happen not to like just move on. I did that with the political threads and a few others. My 'contributions' to those threads would not have been productive so I just did not bother to add my voice. Note here that a 'negative comment' on a thread about how people dislike 'X' can be one which is supportive of 'X'; a 'negative' is in relation to the thread is all I am saying.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but we have to show some respect to those who don't share ours. Negative comments on someone's thread aren't productive, they are destructive. Saying 'Well that is how I feel' doesn't make it any less so, nor does tearing into someones opinion and then saying, "well gee I guess I have to agree to disagree" because once you have said that you have already left a burning hole in their thread. Then of course someone says something in response, which engenders its own response which brings us to where we are now.

You want to start a thread saying how much you like Enterprise? fine. Enterprise Detractors can start one that says how much they don't like the show. As long as both sides keep to their own threads and don't heckle the others, there is not any problem and people can share how they feel pro or con. Its not about anyone's right to have and share an opinion, its about having enough respect for that person to keep your conflicting views in an appropriate venue instead of weighing in just to rain on someone else's thread. I guess this sort of thing just used to be internal, people did it because it was the polite thing to do. Move along... move along...

Addendum:

Cap'n Hunter posted while I was writing this, while coming at it from a different angle for the solution, I have to say that I agree with his comments. Saying that "This is not something I like" is different from saying "I can't believe how stupid this is to even discuss". It comes back once again to respect for other people's opinions and, more pragmatically, the fact that the later comment can outright kill a thread.

[Phantom]

And the argument flip-flops.

Now that we naysayers have proven we to have the right to say how bad Ent is, and now the arguement comes down to "respect." As far as I am concerned everyone here has shown the utmost respect to each other, excluding a very small minority.

As to the naysayers "beating you over the head" with how bad Ent is, I have to tell you, you yaysayers do the same thing to us everytime you post a glowing report of an Ent ep.

[Sarge]

"And if I say Phantom is an overbearing tin-plated gamemaster with delusions of godhood, well that's my opinion, too."

(Nothing personal, Phantom; you just happened to be the last person to post before me. )

We've had disagreements on the boards as long as I've been here. IMO, what's changed is personal respect, politeness, manners, common courtesy, or however you want to describe it. If people won't be nice on their own initiative, then the mods need to step in and enforce discipline from time to time.

"Don't do it, mister, and that's an order."

"But you heard what Sarge called Phantom!"

[Lancer]

Phantom, this isn't just about the Enterprise threads, it's about the whole tone of the forums.

One thing that IMO makes a big difference for many topics we have seen these last few weeks (or even months) is not so much that people disagree with one another, but the way opinions are voiced. It's not so much about "yaysaysers vs. naysayers" than "I don't like that tone, so you better apologize".
While this may not be voiced very often in so many words, I feel that it influences a lot of topics. We have all disagreed with one another in the past over one topic or the other, but a lot of the dissent these days is not so much about different opinions, but the way these opinions are voiced.

Look at some of the Enterprise threads (which are always a welcome example): Someone says "it sucks" and somebody else takes offence at that - and suddenly it's no longer about the merits or flaws of the show, but about the way someone expresses their opinion, even if that fact never comes to the fore.
Things start getting personal, the topic heats up, etc. etc.

Now, I am the last person to tell anybody how he should voice his opinion, but maybe all we need is for everyone to take a few steps back, take a deep breath and relax a little.
While I value an honest opinion more than many people I know, even if it is expressed in a rather harsh way, being just a little bit diplomatic never hurt anyone.

So even if you totally disagree with what someone posts, why not attack the content of said post, instead of the tone of it?
And no, I am not suggesting to just ignore something you find completely offensive, but having a debate degrade to "You aplogize! No, you apologize first!" is kindergarten stuff.

And before you attack someone else for his way of voicing his opinion, why not take a look in the mirror first and go over your own posts?
One thing this thread should have made clear for everyone is that this is not just Don's forum, it's OUR forum as well. We set the tone here and IMNSHO we are ALL responsible for the attitude here.

No use in calling names, unless you are willing to do something about it yourself, that's what I am trying to say here I guess.
So let's stop talking about it and get on with it, like the intelligent and civilised beings we all can be.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Originally posted by Phantom

As to the naysayers "beating you over the head" with how bad Ent is, I have to tell you, you yaysayers do the same thing to us everytime you post a glowing report of an Ent ep.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Why do you feel the need to go into a positive thread, attack that person's opinion, and then complain that they don't respect yours?

One thing that did occur to me, that I didn't say but should have, is that there are plenty of rude and obnoxious folks on both sides, and this isn't just about ENT. It's about lack of respect and good manners, and the intent behind the posting.

Lancer's right though, none of us are whiter than white here.

[T'lara]

Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter
There is a world of difference between posting your opinion and hitting people over the head with it. Or in some cases deliberately provoking them.

Unfortunately, many of the people who post negative opinions don't know how to be polite, or respect those who hold an opposing viewpoint. Heck, some of them don't even grasp the concept that it is just their opinion, yet still demand we respect what they say, despite the lack of respect they have for others.

The problem is not the posting of opinions, it's the attitude behind the posts. If you don't give respect you sure as hell are not going to get it back.

Same has been said about those positive on the subject not being polite either as well it goes both ways as has been said in THIS thread.

As I will say this again: Let's all agree to disagree people and let's have fun on the board.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Originally posted by T'lara
Same has been said about those positive on the subject not being polite either as well it goes both ways as has been said in THIS thread.

As I will say this again: Let's all agree to disagree people and let's have fun on the board.

Yeah, it was also said by me one post up. No one is contesting that. And as others have also said, it has gone beyond agreeing to disagree.

[Joe Dizzy]

Could somebody link to (or name) threads in which this "heightened aggression" or "lack of respect" is evident?

I'm not saying it's not there, but one man's "lack of respect" is another's "lively discussion".

Joe, el Curioso

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Sarge
"And if I say Phantom is an overbearing tin-plated gamemaster with delusions of godhood, well that's my opinion, too."

Delusions? I'm having delusions? You mean I'm not a tin plated dictator? Wow! Thanks now I can stop the therapy

Don't worry Sarge, I can tell when someone is using an innocent joke to make a point. A good choice of lines to, I might add.

I use the Enterprise angle as an example because it is currently the hottest debate going on the boards. That is while the Political Moritorium is on anyway. I realize the discussion isn't about "nay-yay sayers", but about the way things have been worded lately. And I fully admit that I could chose my words better at times, as was said above there is no one here with out sin. And I think, as long as control is maintained, this is a healthy discussion, it allows a few things to be politly be aired and there is nothing wrong with that. Keeps over all pressure down.

As long as it doesn't turn into an argument over arguments.

[Greg Smith]

Originally posted by Phantom
And the argument flip-flops.

As to the naysayers "beating you over the head" with how bad Ent is, I have to tell you, you yaysayers do the same thing to us everytime you post a glowing report of an Ent ep.

But if you don't like Enterprise, don't read the threads about it. Then you won't feel we're 'beating you over the head' with it.

[C5]

The trouble about the Enterprise thing is that, when people start a thread asking people opinions about a certain thing in Enterprise, how it could be developped and so on, while specifically stating that they don't want to hear ENT bashing, and that people start posting on the thread with comments like "anyway it's B&B, so it will be dumb" and "Enterprise is crap anyway", one can't help feeling a bit harassed...

[AslanC]

Look peeps

Star Trek fans cannot reach concensus, even on TWOK.

Why not let it all go.

You want to bitch, then bitch

You want to praise, then praise

Just stop pissing in each other's ppols already.

Sheesh... this isn't rocket science... in fact it is kind of childish sometimes and very circular.

Sorry to come off harsh, but I have really had enough of this.

Agree to disagree and move on.

Please