Romulan Warships

[Tomalak]

It is said that the Scimitar weaponery is double that of the standard warbird (probably the Dderidex), I dout that its the Valdore cuz it's a new Ship and a new class...

so my question is as we have seen in multiple books covering starships of all races, does it have 6 disruptor canons and 2 torpedoe launchers, or if we make the count, 26 disruptor canons and 13 torpedoe launchers?? (scimitar class: 52 disruptor banks ,27 torpedoe bays...)

it's more logical considering it size. I cant believe a ship of that size having the same weaponery as the romulan shuttle... even if its wroted on "Star Trek deep space nine technical manual".

since i bought all the Star Trek TNG series in dvd, i noticed in some episodes that the warbird can fire from more locations that its wrote on Steve Long Books. And we can clearly see that the warbird have at least 3 forward launchers in the TNG series, and Deep Space Nine series. So we can assume that at the official web site(Nemesis.Startrek.com), the information regardless of the weaponery onboard the standard warbird is correct.

i hope that Steve Long will take that in mind when completing is Romulan Book.

im just wondering about the real potential of The Valdore and is gears. A new Ship , a new class... wow!!

As for the Scimitar we all know, its a big Predator, no comment..

Long Live The Romulan Star Empire.

[redwood973]

Why wait. I, for one, would be interested in seeing your write up of the D'deridex-class.

[Snake_Plissken]

does it have 6 disruptor canons and 2 torpedoe launchers

the DS9 tech manual says so. OTOH it is notoriously known for being full of typos and bugs. The figures for the D'Deridex were used in the Spacedock supplements.

. I cant believe a ship of that size having the same weaponery as the romulan shuttle

I'm not sure but I think that the armament write-up for the Romulan shuttle was a copy/paste error from the D'Deridex. Spacedock's theory about the Romulans was that they used fewer disruptor arrays than the Klingons (the Vor'Cha for instance has 18 arrays) but each individual Romulan array is much more powerful than its Klingon counterpart.

i noticed in some episodes that the warbird can fire from more locations that its wrote on Steve Long Books

you shouldn't interpret what you see on screen too literaly. They once made a mistake on TNG where the Enterprise-D was clearly firing a phaser from a location where there obvioulsy was no array.

i hope that Steve Long will take that in mind when completing is Romulan Book

I could be wrong but I don't think any more SRMs are planned. You could ask him in the Spacedock forum.

Incidentally Sea Tyger and I are working on something that should make a lot of Romulan fans happy

[Tomalak]

and what about the Startrek official web site...(nemesis.startrek.com)

it's clearly say that the scimitar as twice the weaponery of the Standard warbird.. Presuming that its the D'deridex.

i know that the romulans have the bigger and powerful Disruptors, but i cant imagine a "WARBIRD" having only 6 disruptors canon and two launchers. it doesnt make any sense for a ship of that Size and it have enough Power to energize it all
dont you aggred?(Quantum Singularity Core)

can you explain me a ship like the Vorcha much smaller in Size having 18 disruptors against the Warbird 6?

about the fact that in the series they make errors, so in the books than... i stick more on what i see on tv than in the book cuz its CANON.

and can you explain the Scimitar? its the Romulan who made this warship in a secret base for Shizon and the remans.Cuz they are with him in the coup!. It can only explain that indeed the Romulan can make a Warship carrying the same amount of array that anyway klingon ships for example.

So its logical to assume that the Warbird D'deridex have HALF what the Scimitar carry in term of weaponery. For the Valdore its seem yet a mystery, but im sure that a book will be written, and will be know for sure. For begining ,i noticed that the Valdore have the same cloak as the Scimitar. You can clearly see when uncloaking in front the Enterprise-E, It's the Same.

[Snake_Plissken]

it's clearly say that the scimitar as twice the weaponery of the Standard warbird.. Presuming that its the D'deridex.

you've said so yourself, "presuming" its the D'Deridex. Plus it says something to the effect that its a rumor anyways.

it doesnt make any sense for a ship of that Size and it have enough Power to energize it all

I'm not certain I follow you here.

can you explain me a ship like the Vorcha much smaller in Size having 18 disruptors against the Warbird 6?

the idea is that the Klingon disruptors are not as powerful as their Romulan counterparts. Say for the sake of the argument the Vor'Cha's disruptors are type-1 disruptors. 18 x type-1 = 18. Now the D'Deridex might have type-5 disruptors, so 6 x type-5 = 30. The Vor'Cha might have an advantage in that all of the proverbial 'eggs' are not placed in the same basket, ie, the Vor'Cha has better disruptor redundancy.

about the fact that in the series they make errors, so in the books than... i stick more on what i see on tv than in the book cuz its CANON.

fair enough. But even on screen they make plenty of mistakes. For instance in both First Contact and Nemesis they incorrectly state the number of decks the Enterprise-E is supposed to have. OTOH the DS9 tech manual is quasi-canon since it was written by the folks who actually worked on the show.

its the Romulan who made this warship in a secret base for Shizon and the remans

it was clearly stated that it was the Remans who had built it from a secret base.

It can only explain that indeed the Romulan can make a Warship carrying the same amount of array that anyway klingon ships for example.

remember, the Scimitar is one big plot-device ship. It can also be logically assumed that it was a one-of-a kind ship. The line of dialogue where Worf says it has 52 disruptors and 27 torpedo launchers was inserted to make very clear to the audience, especially the folks who aren't that familiar with Trek, that the Scimitar was a big menacing ship.

but im sure that a book will be written, and will be know for sure

if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. Because of the abyssimal performance of Nemesis and the general waning of interest in all things Trek I doubt any ship reference works will be published in the near future.

i noticed that the Valdore have the same cloak as the Scimitar. You can clearly see when uncloaking in front the Enterprise-E, It's the Same.

I beg to differ. The Scimitar had the ability to fire while cloaked (or rather, to cloack/decloack really fast and to fire in the transition period). The Norexans on screen didn't seem to have that ability, which leads me to think that they have different cloaking devices.

[Tomalak]

Originally posted by Snake_Plissken
you've said so yourself, "presuming" its the D'Deridex. Plus it says something to the effect that its a rumor anyways.

In the universe of Startrek its always RUMORS.. its not like Starwars, they have good and solid informations on everythings and they are not always exchanging like we do here on things like that, cuz everything its clears from start..


So...How many warbird we know in existence? humm!

if we exclude the shuttle, the science vessel, the scout ship.. i count 3, the d'deridex, The Norexans and the Scimitar.

we exclude the last two cuz they are new in the movie so D'deridex remain as the only one!


the idea is that the Klingon disruptors are not as powerful as their Romulan counterparts. Say for the sake of the argument the Vor'Cha's disruptors are type-1 disruptors. 18 x type-1 = 18. Now the D'Deridex might have type-5 disruptors, so 6 x type-5 = 30. The Vor'Cha might have an advantage in that all of the proverbial 'eggs' are not placed in the same basket, ie, the Vor'Cha has better disruptor redundancy.

then why Steve Long SRM books tell that the klingon disruptors are as much as powerfull than the Romulans??????

and again why than a federation starship like the enterprise-e have more weaponery and about the same power as the D'deridex????


fair enough. But even on screen they make plenty of mistakes. For instance in both First Contact and Nemesis they incorrectly state the number of decks the Enterprise-E is supposed to have. OTOH the DS9 tech manual is quasi-canon since it was written by the folks who actually worked on the show.

ok!, and its in contradiction with The Star Trek Encyclopedia...


it was clearly stated that it was the Remans who had built it from a secret base.

really? then explain to me how a slave race can accomplished that
with no scientific, no technicians, no tools, no knowledge. They are slaves to work on dillithium mine forever. But Shinzon gain sympathies amount them, and thats why romulans made that ship in secret for them in exchange for actions, the destruction of the federation and its population as mention in the movie Nemesis..because they were tired to wait. And im including the formation of his army cuz they were used in the dominion war on most violent combat.



remember, the Scimitar is one big plot-device ship. It can also be logically assumed that it was a one-of-a kind ship. The line of dialogue where Worf says it has 52 disruptors and 27 torpedo launchers was inserted to make very clear to the audience, especially the folks who aren't that familiar with Trek, that the Scimitar was a big menacing ship.

im not sure, people seeing Nemesis know Startrek. Its not for them the first time they see a startrek movie, and even if its the first time people dont know whats a disruptors, torpedoes are phasers so talking about the amount carrying onboard dont concern them or dont even make a difference!



if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath. Because of the abyssimal performance of Nemesis and the general waning of interest in all things Trek I doubt any ship reference works will be published in the near future.

never say no..


I beg to differ. The Scimitar had the ability to fire while cloaked (or rather, to cloack/decloack really fast and to fire in the transition period). The Norexans on screen didn't seem to have that ability, which leads me to think that they have different cloaking devices.

The first time the Scimitar uncloak it was very slow, everyone including Picard had time to see it from the bridge.The Norexans uncloak at the same speed. And the reasons they remade uncloak to battle the scimitar its only for the audience to not confuse them as to know which one is the bad from the goods.
Its not because in the movie the Norexans didnt use this ability means that it cant. Look carefully the way it uncloak.. without any doubt its the same cloak. btw its the romulan who fitted the cloak on the scimitar, then...

[Dan Gurden]

Yes,there is one more SRM for Spacedock. For the Romulans. However this has been delayed by Real-Life stuff for Steve. So we cant really blame him on that front.

I do know that it was written BEFORE Nemesis and so none of those ships were covered. Whether Steve wanted to update is up to him and his free time.

Now why would the Klingons have better Disruptors than Romulans? this is easy, its the same answer as asking why Romulans have superior Cloaking technology to the Kilingons.

Answer 1 - They dont, its all on screen and functions the same (thats the canon answer)...

Answer 2 - (with new added 'INTERPRETOVISION') - The klingons live for war, they go out of their way to seek out combat whenever they can. Now based on this planet, some of the most significant advances in weaopns technology have come about either in time of war, or based on lessons learned during wartime... So if they are always in a state of combat readiness, it seems fair to assume that Klingons have a far greater weapons technology, probably to the detriment of other scientific advancements...

the Romulans on th other hand, are far sneakier, they prefer to avoid confrontation (unless no other choice is available), by far prefering Spys, Sabotage and Ambush... And so their Intelligence agents are feared, their cloaking devices superior and their tactics far more subtle. However a simple head-to-head confrontation would be something to be avoided... Weapons advancements are a lesser requirement for this reason...

However at the end of the day its your game, whatever you want is right. But remember the same is true for us... So no need to tell us we are wrong just because we interpreted the information differently... And with the very little information we are given I can guarantee that we will all disagree on something...

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Having watched the movie several times, I disagree that the Romulans built that ship. Firstly, the horrendous over-gunning seems more suited to Reman tactics and design, and secondly I'm also pretty certain it was stated as being built by the Remans.

As for the Norexans perhaps having the ability to fire while cloaked, I find it unlikely that they would have had it and not used it, given that they were getting their asses royally kicked by Shinzon. Under those circumstances, I sure as Hell wouldn't hold back on using such an advantage. Of course, maybe I'm brighter than your average Romulan.

[Tomalak]

Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter
Having watched the movie several times, I disagree that the Romulans built that ship. Firstly, the horrendous over-gunning seems more suited to Reman tactics and design, and secondly I'm also pretty certain it was stated as being built by the Remans.

As for the Norexans perhaps having the ability to fire while cloaked, I find it unlikely that they would have had it and not used it, given that they were getting their asses royally kicked by Shinzon. Under those circumstances, I sure as Hell wouldn't hold back on using such an advantage. Of course, maybe I'm brighter than your average Romulan.

ok, then tell me how a civilization like the Reman who were in first step of industry developement , plus add to the fact that they were conquered by the romulans and for that time remain slaves to work on dillithium, have the technology to build such a SHIP????????????????????? No doudt as a say the only reasonable conclusion is that the Romulans who supported the Coup built it for him, as for the costumes, and everything he needs...

Its for the film, they were in no need to cloak to fight the scimitar, it was a show of force of 1 federation starship and 2 romulans bop againts the Scimitar. To not confused the people watching it,
as to know witch of them is good or bad, in the script they prefer to let the 2 Norexeans uncloak.

Its not a question of be brighter or not, when they decided that it was like that in the script,its wasnt a question of not using such an advantage.At the End its the guys at paramount that decided.

Remember that The Enterprise-E and its crew are heros and cant die in the show.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Tomalak
[B
ok, then tell me how a civilization like the Reman who were in first step of industry developement ... [/B]

Plot hole.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Dude, they were hiding much of what they had. And if the Romulans had the power to build those ships, I seriously doubt they would have needed Shinzon and the Remans to mastermind their coup. And where do you get the idea the Remans are in the first stages of industrial development? Nothing anywhere in the movie even suggests that. And frankly, if they fought as shock troops during the Dominion War, I found it highly unlikely they do not have access to advanced technology and training. Being slaves doesn't mean they are primitive. As for the Norexans having cloak while fire ability, that's open to interpretation, but I choose to intrepret that they don't. The Scimitar was clearly the prototype, and most likely the only ship so equipped at that time. I seriously doubt the writer thought "yeah, let's have all the Romulan ships be able to fire while cloaked, but we'll only show it on our super planet-killer prototype, so as not to confuse the audience". That makes NO sense, IMHO.

I personally prefer to assume the Remans had quietly built up the facilities to build the Scimitar (probably aided by a faction within the Romulan Government) and built it themselves. Your idea suggest that the Romulans built a ship that would give this slave ultimate power over the Empire and handed it to him? More likely, he built it in secret, and then sprung it on them to prevent them killing him after they used him as a pawn to usurp the Senate. It was pretty clear Shinzon's Romulan supporters were not happy with things as they were. And had they been the ones to build him such a ship, so he could destroy Earth (and deflect blame from them) they surely would not have sent ships to stop him before he did it. After maybe, but not before.

You also try and suggest what the writer was thinking to support your arguments, yet you ignore that fact that the writer tells us in the script that the Remans built the Scimitar. You can't have it both ways.

If you wish to accept your interpretation for your game, that's fine. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to. And, sorry but I'm afraid I just plain disagree with your interpretation. But again, that's not to say you shouldn't use it for your version of Trek. If that's the way you see it, run with it. But please don't try and tell us we must accept your view as the 'right' one.

[Dan Gurden]

Tomalok.

You do realise that you are argueing both for and against the same reason in your statements, making your position variable and obtuse?

On the one hand you argue that the narrative of plot is not strong enough to allow the Remans to build the Scimitar, even though it;

a - doesn't follow established Romulan Design lines.
or b- is not made of funky green metal.

yet such narrative is perfectly acceptable for the other Romulan ships (which in the past with other vessels have always been established as having the ability to cloak or to fight) to be able to fire while cloaked but not do so to avoid confusing the audiences...

Consider this.

So as to NOT confuse the audience (which the studio prefers to be built up of a cross-section of the population rather than a 100% trekkie audience), the Scimitar was built in secret by the Remans, with advanced technologies begged, borrowed or stolen... The fact that there was a military coup simply offered an ally of convenience, but the fact that there were zero Romulans on the Scimitar and the speed at which the Romulan Allies turned against the Reman uprising, and the fact that they did not have either the command codes or knowledge of any weakness sort of implies that the Romulan conspiritors did not have a hand in the construction of the Scimitar?

Again, all of that is conjecture, based on canon. But it is equally valid as your theory, and is not counter to the other half of the arguement... thus my POV remains conistent.

As you say, you would rather that the Scimitar was constructed by the Romulans and entrusted to Shizon, and in your campaign thats fine. but its most definatly not canon, only an opinion/interpretation of the events in the film.

[Snake_Plissken]

its not like Starwars, they have good and solid informations on everythings

well maybe not everything but the SW universe is much 'tighter' in that regard compared to ST. The people who work for Lucas certainly have their act together compared to those at Paramount. Too bad however that Lucas and co can't make a decent movie nowadays

then why Steve Long SRM books tell that the klingon disruptors are as much as powerfull than the Romulans

Ok let's compare the SD stats of the D'Deridex and the Vor'Cha. The D'Deridex has one 280-pts disruptor that can fire 5 times, and five 240-pts disruptors that can also fire 5 times. The Vor'Cha has one 280-pts disruptor that can fire 5 times, and seventeen 220-pts disruptors that can fire 3 times. The D'Deridex has also broader firing arcs for its disruptors, you have to bear that in mind. Now, if you tally up the absolute total amount of beam firepower each ship can project, you'd have 7,400 for the D'Deridex and 12,620 for the Vor'Cha. HOWEVER, the DDeridex has 755 pts of power and the Vor'Cha 605. If you remember how SD works, it costs 1 pt of power to power up 10 pts of armament. So the D'Deridex can power up all of its disruptors but the Vor'Cha can only power up less than half of its disruptors. Also because of the way ICON rules work you can only hit successfully so many ships past your target number, so even if you powered your armaments to the maximum there's only so much firepower you could effectively direct depending on the skill of the tactical officer. In all of the other departments the D'Deridex wins over the Vor'Cha: better cloak (10 Vs. 8), more SU (3,629 Vs. 2,663) and better shields (1,300/ treshold 430 Vs. 900/ treshold 300)

people seeing Nemesis know Startrek

one of the "prime directives" (pun intended) of ST-movie making is too make the movies much more accessible to the casual movie-goer. Particularly with Nemesis where they created an action-packed movie to appeal to a broader base (a move which I question).

[QUOTE]then explain to me how a slave race can accomplished that with no scientific, no technicians, no tools, no knowledge[QUOTE]

How do you know that? Was that mentioned in the movie? Where did you read that? Do you have sources at Paramount we're not privy to?

btw its the romulan who fitted the cloak on the scimitar, then...

again where does your info come from? What source? Where did you read that? You know something we don't?

have the technology to build such a SHIP?????????????????????

This is Star Trek; where you have replicators that can turn gooey stuff into anything you want, transporters that beam people and objects through thin air and singing androids. Anything is possible.

To not confused the people watching it,

they decided that it was like that in the script,its wasnt a question of not using such an advantage

both valid points- it doesn't mean that if we don't see it on screen than it doesn't exist. But you have to agree that not using such a dire advantage if the Norexans did indeed possess it would be an enormous incongruity. However you could plead that maybe the Romulans knew that their improved cloaks wouldn't work against the Scimitar; maybe they knew that Shinzon had a way to overcome that advantage. But overall I agree with Capt. Hunter.

Plot hole.

Phantom, you want plot holes huh? How about this: a Jedi walks into a cloning factory and the technically advanced yet incredibly stupid alien managers answer all of his questions which indicates that he doesn't have a clue of what's happening and yet they assume he was the envoy they were waiting for- an envoy who would obviously know what the deal is.

[Capt Daniel Hunter]

Originally posted by Snake_Plissken
But overall I agree with Capt. Hunter.

*snip*

plot holes huh? How about this: a Jedi walks into a cloning factory and the technically advanced yet incredibly stupid alien managers answer all of his questions which indicates that he doesn't have a clue of what's happening and yet they assume he was the envoy they were waiting for- an envoy who would obviously know what the deal is.

Someone agrees with me *puffing up my chest with pride* LOL It's such a rare occurence

That bit in AOTC cracked me up. Still, it was a fun movie.

[Phantom]

Yes plot holes. The type you park a Death Star in;

1) They built the Scimatar at a secret base. I can only assume that it was fairly close to Remus, I don't think the Romulans would allow slaves off planet. So, I guess the Tal Shiar was asleep or maybe on vacation.

2) "Shock Troops!!!" They must have been really effective. THEY CAN ONLY COME OUT WHEN IT'S DARK! How useful is that?????