Questions on LUG

[Alan Haber]

Hello, I'm new here so I hope I'm in the right place. I have a number of questions regarding character creation especially hybrids which I hope someone can help me with.

1- When creating a character from scratch using the Templates, Overlays…, how do you incorporate the advantage “Mixed Species Heritage +6” into the character? Is it tacked onto the new “hybridized” template (which sounds most logical to me) or would you have to use your Development Points, in say, Early Life History to pay for it?

2- According to the text under “Mixed Species Heritage”, it says to “pick three attributes from the primary Template and two from the Secondary Template”- if you choose an Attribute that has an Edge listed (i.e. Fitness 2, Strength +1; from the Vulcan Template) do you only get the Attribute (Fitness in this case) or both the Attribute and the Edge together?

3- What about the Advantages/Disadvantages- according to the main text in the Advantage section, “Mixed Species Heritage”, I don’t recall it saying anything about Ads/Disads, but the example provided seemed to indicate that when creating the hybrid you would take the Ads/Disads of the dominant Template, am I correct in assuming that? What about mixing and matching the Ads/Disads from the prmary and secondary Templates- such as a Vulcan (dominant)/Human hybrid which has: 2 extra Courage points, Code of Honor (Vulcan) -3, and Curious +1, BUT NO Hides Emotions -2?

[Dan Gurden]

This is EXACTLY the place to be for this kind of question. Welcome abaord.

1 - As long as the 6 DP have been paid it doesn't really matter where the point come from. Early Life history is way OK, after all, if you dont know if you want a 'half-breed' by that point, then its probably too late...

However the DP's assigned are not linear, simply a numerical value of the characters make-p and experience over its life so far. So there is equally nothing wrong with paying for the Mixed Species during the characters tours... (either assigning the advantage early and paying it off ASAP, or through a bizarre transporter accident).

2 - Yes, in theory you get the edges assigned to that attribute. However some narrators here have suggested either;
a - building several 'stock' templates for the most common half-breeds
or
b - using the sum total of edges, so if there is a plus and minus... do the math and apply the result (upto +/- 2 maximums)

3 - The best way to think of this is to ask which culture the character grew up in?

Spock was a Vulcan/Human growing up on Vulcan (and so he viewed himself as Vulcan first, and would be assigned the Vulcan Skills and Advantages.

Belanna was a Human/Klingon, growing up on a human colony, and so she would have the human skills and advantages...

Does this help?

[Alan Haber]

Dan,

Thank you for the greeting, the quick reply and the answers. They did help, I appreciate it! Your answers pretty much confirmed the way I understood the rules so now I can 'fracture' them with my own ideas. If I manage to come up with something that seems workable, would I be able to post them in the forum to get feedback from the more experienced players?

If I may clarify on your answers though;
1- "However the DP's assigned are not linear, simply a numerical value of the characters make-p and experience over its life so far. So there is equally nothing wrong with paying for the Mixed Species during the characters tours... "

Were you suggesting dividing up the cost of the Mixed Species Heritage over the course of a few tours to pay it off (i.e. 3 points in the first tour + 3 points in the second tour)?

2 "b - using the sum total of edges, so if there is a plus and minus... do the math and apply the result (upto +/- 2 maximums)"

i.e.; a Betazoid/Centauran hybrid, who chooses Psi 2, Fitness 2 and Presence 2/Empathy +1 from the Betazoid template and Intellect 2/Logic +1 and Coordination 2 from the Centauran, would effectively then be able to have Presence 2/Empathy +2, since both templates have Empathy +1. Is that how they're doing it?

[Owen E Oulton]

Were you suggesting dividing up the cost of the Mixed Species Heritage over the course of a few tours to pay it off (i.e. 3 points in the first tour +3 points in the second tour)?"

Yes, that is a valid way of doing it.

"A Betazoid/Centauran hybrid, who chooses Psi 2, Fitness 2 and Presence 2/Empathy +1 from the Betazoid template and Intellect 2/Logic +1 and Coordination 2 from the Centauran, would effectively then be able to have Presence 2/Empathy +2, since both templates have Empathy +1. Is that how they're doing it?"

Nope. Choose a value from either parent's Template, or an average bewteen the two values. If both parents have the same value you would use that value - in the case of both parents with Presence 2/Empathy +1, the character would also have the same value.

[Alan Haber]

Going through the answers I recieved and trying to come up with my own views on Hybrids has given me a few more questions and thoughts if I may;

1- What does “Mixed Species Heritage” and “Alien Upbringing” give the character? In other words, what makes Mixed Species Heritage such an expensive (+6) advantage, it didn’t help Tora Ziyal (the Bajorans didn’t like her and the Cardassians didn’t want her) or Belanna Torres (the Klingons thought she was inferior since she wasn’t a full blooded Klingon) and the Vulcans (if I remember correctly) gave Spock a hard time growing up, and forget about Soleta from the Peter David ST series of books, but that would be because she’s part Romulan; so where’s the advantage in it, especially at such a high price (I would think if it should be an Advantage as opposed to a Disadvantage, maybe it should cost less; +1 to +3 points instead of +6 points)?

2- How many Development Points does Courage cost? Is it 5 DP each point like the Experience Points cost or would they be 3 DP each point; thereby reducing my calculation of the Human template down to 50 points (instead of 54 points) which is what I’ve heard the Templates are all supposed to be

3- If the "full-blooded" Templates are supposed to be (even if they aren't) 50 points each, what are the Hybrid Templates supposed to total up to? Also 50 points, or even a bit more?

Thanks!

[redwood973]

What does “Mixed Species Heritage” and “Alien Upbringing” give the character? In other words, what makes Mixed Species Heritage such an expensive (+6) advantage, it didn’t help Tora Ziyal (the Bajorans didn’t like her and the Cardassians didn’t want her) or Belanna Torres (the Klingons thought she was inferior since she wasn’t a full blooded Klingon) and the Vulcans (if I remember correctly) gave Spock a hard time growing up, and forget about Soleta from the Peter David ST series of books, but that would be because she’s part Romulan; so where’s the advantage in it, especially at such a high price (I would think if it should be an Advantage as opposed to a Disadvantage, maybe it should cost less; +1 to +3 points instead of +6 points)?

This question and your third tie in together. Species Templates were all to be 50 pts each. Edit errors allowed some with more, some with fewer to make it to print. In game terms "Mixed Heritage" is an advantage in that a character with such picks attributes/edges from two existing templates. This could result in a character with more than the standard 50 pt template. . .and thus an advantage over others using just the basic templates. [As far as on screen: No "Mixed Heritage" did not seem all that much of an advantage. . .but it is in game terms.]

The "Alien Upbringing" allows [for a Terran raised by Andorians for example] to use the attributes/edges from the Human Template, but have the Skills from the Andorian Template. Thus again allowing more than the standard 50 pt template.

How many Development Points does Courage cost? Is it 5 DP each point like the Experience Points cost or would they be 3 DP each point; thereby reducing my calculation of the Human template down to 50 points (instead of 54 points) which is what I’ve heard the Templates are all supposed to be.

Courage Points (when used to total up the values of the Species Templates) are worth 3 pts each.

If the "full-blooded" Templates are supposed to be (even if they aren't) 50 points each, what are the Hybrid Templates supposed to total up to? Also 50 points, or even a bit more?

As I stated above: "Mixed Heritage" templates are random and not limited to the 50 pts as other templates. Thus the advantage to being of "Mixed Heritage."

[Dan Gurden]

1- I think you may be confusing matter here. Mixed Species and Alien Upbringing are not the same thing.

Mixed Species represents a 'half-breed' (as it were), while Alien Upbringing represents being raised by a Culture alien t you natural one. In the case of a Mixed Species with Alien Upbringing, such a combination could show either;

a - A character born to parents of different species, and raised by a foster-parent/guardian from a third species, not the same as the parents.

b - Alternatively, you could use the Alien upbringing as the other alien parents. When creating a mixed species, you choose the dominant culture for the skills learned while growing up. But an Alien Upbringing could show that the other parent introduced their child to some of their alternate culture/language.

Also, when you mention Tora Ziyal and Belanna, you talk about the character stuff. Just as in the shows, these characterisations are only vaguely hinted at in the character stats, and require your players to flesh them out... remember the advantage the character gets can potentially be huge. Pick 3 stats from 1 species and 2 from another. Lets assume that the vast majority of these will be human crossbreeds (to gain the +2 courage from the human upbringing), now they also get access to potentailly stronger, smarter or even Psionic characters on this +6...

Yes. its worth it. If a player chooses to downplay the stats and make a troubled history, you are quite within your rights to make the points cost cheaper... But bear in mind that if you make that the case across the board, then the players who only want the best stats will rule the game.

Equally, dont feel obliged to apply this advantage. Remember Simon Tarses. 1/4 Romulan, but to all efforts and effects his character would have a plain vanilla human template, and be described with the slightly pointed ears from the vulcanoid heritage, along with a Dark Secret, but with absiolutely no sign of the Mixed Species advantage. if a player simply wants to describe themselves as a half-breed but does not want the points, let them choose the dominant species, take that template and make a very slight adjustment to the description of the character.

2- Courage points dont 'officially' cost anything in character generation. Players are not supposed to be able to purchase them during character generation starting instead with the base amount adjusted by species.

The actual cost when designing templates is however 5DP. Remember that while templates are based on a 50 point mark, there is a little leeway, some come up cheaper, some a little more expeensive. Humans are one the best deal template in the game (remember the Bajoran template is exactly the same with a -4 Species Enemy disdvantage attached, totalling 50DP)...

3- Nope, the hybrid templates can alter this total (aaccording to the strict letter of the rules), this is after all, what your players are paying 6DP for... And you want to let them have it for between +1-+3... Shame on You!!!

Hope all this helps.

[Owen E Oulton]

"Yes. its worth it. If a player chooses to downplay the stats and make a troubled history, you are quite within your rights to make the points cost cheaper... But bear in mind that if you make that the case across the board, then the players who only want the best stats will rule the game."

Frankly, the costs for these two Ads are there solely to prevent min/maxers from overusing this type of character. The way to "decrease" the cost of such an Advantage is of course to offset it with Disavantages. Tora Ziyal's problems (to choose one of the examples) were not related in game mechanics to the Mixed Species Heritage, but to the fact that she also had Disadvantages balancing it, similar to the Outcast Disad from The Way of D'Era.

[Trinity Zeldis]

IIRC, courage points are gained through the buying of the Bold advantage. I am at work and don't have the books with me so I can't say with all certainty. However, there is a way to buy extras just as there is a way to buy extra renown.