How would Starfleet deal with... "the tattletale dilemma"

[Profit]

Pondering new ways to torment my players, I came up with a conundrum to wich I found no conclusion, so I turn to my fellow board-members for help.

The Dominion war rages and everyone is anxious to get the upper hand. Suddenly, the Dominion come upon a new source of intelligence- the Ferengi. Enterprising DaiMons shadow Federaton vessels and fleets, conduct scans, and sell the information to the Dominion.

How would StarFleet deal with this? Would they open fire on Ferengi ships that haven't attacked them? Would they try ruses and such measures?

I believe NATO had a similar problem during the cold war(?), but StarFleet isn't NATO.

[Robbert Raets]

"In times of war, the Law falls silent"

[Joe Dizzy]

I fail to see the dilemma.

These Ferengi would be treated the same way you'd treat any enemy spy. Just because they spy for money instead of some sense of national allegiance, doesn't really change their role in the conflict.

A spy is a spy.

[Profit]

How would you separate spying Ferengi from normal Ferengi?

[Sea Tyger]

Enterprising DaiMons shadow Federaton vessels and fleets, conduct scans, and sell the information to the Dominion.

Shadowing Federation vessels and fleets would be suspicious enough for a ship CO or task force commander to investigate, especially if it's over an extended period of time...and especially if a number of Starfleet ships start reporting shadows.

Then all they need to do is make the Ferengi spy game unprofitable.

[Joe Dizzy]

Originally posted by Profit
How would you separate spying Ferengi from normal Ferengi?

Why bother?

Lock 'em up, send 'em to court. They're free to prove their innocence there. The time and thus the profit they've lost through not participating in the market is probably not worth whatever they make by selling the information to the Dominion.

[Ergi]

I believe that there would be very little Starfleet could do directly against any vessel scanning them, as long as that ship remained in neutral territory. The Federation could, however, file an official complaint to the species controlling that space AND to the Ferengi government, treatening to end trade relationships. This would probably make the Ferengi take care of the problem themselves.

I remember watching a JAG episode some years ago that took place during the Kosovo war or shortly after it, when Harm was piloting again.
There was a Lear Jet spying on the U.S. planes that couldn't be shot down because it officially belonged to a news agency in a neutral country.
IIRC, it once even lured a group of pilots deep into enemy territory where they were attacked.
That Ferengi ship of yours could actually have been boarded by Jem'Hadar or Cardassians, so it could be used in the same way.

[Profit]

It is my understanding that the Ferengi doesn't have a government per se, there's just the Grand Nagus and he's just some kind of functionary. (I know how he's sometimes described as some kind of despot, but this IMHO, goes against the Ferengi free-market spirit.)

Anyways, it's sorta more interesting if they don't, and makes the Ferengi much more of a nuisance!

Now- what would be an acceptable solution to the problem for the players?

[Liz Not Beth]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

[Publius]

Just a bit o' History here that might muddy the waters: look up the Greer Incident, which prompted "Shoot on Sight: orders to US ships in the Atlantic well before December 7th 1941.

The Greer was helping a British plane try to sink a U-Boat (by scouting her position and maintaining contact with the U-Boat when the British plane went back for more fuel), keep in mind that we were not officially involved in the War yet, and when fired upon by the Nazis (which may well have been a warning shot since the tropedo never hit the Greer by over 100m), she chased the U-Boat around for another two hours and laid something like a dozen or more depth charges down to take the U-Boat out.

It became big news on the homefront as an "unprovoked attack" on the US Ship by the Nazi U-Boat and resulted in the "Shoot on Sight" orders in September. The word "unprovoked" used here apparently means that a ship scouting out your position for enemy vessels is still neutral. Or maybe the truth didn't come out until much later, I don't know that part of it myself.

Isn't the Ferengi in your example doing the same thing as the Greer? However you decide to act here, you should let the PCs know about the Greer, it should be part of their standard HIstory courses at the Academy. If nothing else, it should prompt a lively discussion.

[Edit: spelling error and minor correction]

[Dan Gurden]

Shameless Speculation...

Theres also the fact that Grand Nagus Zek was unofficially supporting the Alpha Quadrant, he was always very keen to be around Starfleet, especially Moogies grandson Nog. Earning brownie points with the missus...

Now 'officially' the Ferengi remained neutral. After all there was no reason to get involved, and the Dominion were trading partners (read; targets, just like everybody else). Besides, remaining neutral allows you to be on-side with the eventual winner...

Besides as the 192nd rule of Aquisition states;
"Never cheat a Klingon... Unless you're sure you can get away with it." And helping the Dominion would be against the Federation/Klingon alliance.
Neither should we forget that the 62nd rule states; "The riskier the road, the greater the profit." By far the most relevantrule applied to this discussion. Nor should we forget rule 21; "Never place friendship above profit."

Less Shameless Speculation...

However, the 177th rule states; "Know your enemies... But do business with them, always." and the 121st rule states; "Everything is for Sale, even friendship."

I have abslutely no doubt in my mind that individual Ferengi showed no qualms in selling information. however. A regular information source? Or a 100% trustworthy information source. This is a bit too far fetched for the Ferengi as portrayed in the shows...

Besides, that would require them to pick a side, thus ensuring a little risk should your chosen side fail to win. Now while the portrayal of Zek was clear on who he wanted to win (no matter how it might affect business, we cannot forget that he was under the sway of Moogie... Who had rather... different ideas on what a Ferengi should be.

To be totally honest, my opinion has always been the opposite. that the Ferengi were neutral, but covertly supplied the Alliance with Inteligence and support as was deemed excusable or convenient. But that is only my own opinion...

No Speculation at all.

So then theres the issue of Moogie. Lets face it, the moment the Dominion capyured her this whole concept goes up in the air. After all, none of us can disagree that Zek was under her influence. And as such this event might well have been the turning point on 'official' Ferengi involvement...

The 48th rule states; "The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife." Have you noticed that theVorta were usually always smiling? I bet the Ferengi did!

Now while indiviual Daimon might not have supported Zek and his 'progressive' reforms, they would however be acting alone (or at least without official sanction). Therefore there would be little problem if said Starfleet ship was forced to destroy this Ferengi Spy.

Theres no 'officail rule for it, but there are plenty of gaps in the rules. I wouldn't be surprised to find that there was a rule stating that;
"If your caught doing something illegal, your on your own."

Basically, if your Daimon is caught and his complicity proved. The Ferengi would deny all knowledge, even of an officially sanctioned mission.

Your best bet here, is to study the rules, just as all Ferengi are required to do (they are plastered all over the internet, just look up 'The Rules of Aquisition' or buy the book). And to interpret them as this Daimon would do. beware they are quite contradictory. Just like the Ferengi. I think it is far more likely that this Daimon is a double agent. Selling or trading information to both sides in a very freindly manner, which WOULD offer a moral dilemma as they are forced to blow a friend up!

However nobody can deny the 35th rule;
"War is good for business."

[General Chang]

Of course, Starfleet could take a super tough stance like George Bush Jr. and say something like:

"Those who are our enemies, and those who support our enemies, in any capacity, will be dealt with swiftly!"

Mind you, that is not a direct GB quote...just a gist.

If the Ferengi Alliance is smart, they would immediately separate themselves from those renegade Ferengi who would bring the Alpha Quadrant to ruin. The renegades who are providing tactical/strategic information to the Dominion would then be on their own, with no support from the Ferengi Trade Commission. And if the Ferengi wished to stay in the Federation's good graces, the FTC would be quick to point out just who those renegades are. "They went thattaway!"


And of course, Starfleet would send a couple of Akiras to smash the renegades' marauders to so much space dust, and capture the Daimon's and their crews. Then comes the question of POW's, and perpaps repatriating such vermin to the Ferengi Alliance. Or, the Federation could try the Ferengi renegades as full fledged spies. Better yet, let the Klingons try them....at least, they seem to have DEATH PENALTIES for spies. HEE HEE HEE!

Respectfully,
General Chang

[Dan Gurden]

Originally posted by General Chang
Of course, Starfleet could take a super tough stance like George Bush Jr. and say something like:

"Those who are our enemies, and those who support our enemies, in any capacity, will be dealt with swiftly!"

Mind you, that is not a direct GB quote...just a gist.

We are talking about the same touchy-feely starfleet, always trying to talk over fighting everytime and not using any unfair technological advantage until the siytuation is so desperate that it is no longer an advantage, that we have been watching on TV for the last 35 years?

hands up who thinks that Starfleet would really take this hard-line view... (Starfleet rather than individuals and rogue Federation secret services)...

[Profit]

"rogue federation secret service"

Hmm.... I can feel an adventure seed coing on.... hmmm...... I'll post it here when it's cooked.

Very good insights so far my friends, I thank you.

[Bill Harris]

Originally posted by Profit
"rouge federation secret service"

Oh, that is sooo not their color.